7 ms·

There are parts of Microsoft that understand open source. Most parts of the Windows team ain’t that (exceptions apply). Reading this saddens me a lot as he clea

by alpb 6y ago

There are parts of Microsoft that understand open source. Most parts of the Windows team ain’t that (exceptions apply). Reading this saddens me a lot as he clearly got screwed. But this is why any project with momentum should consider growing its community and maybe forming a foundation. For example, Homebrew and its community/infrastructure is better than and bigger than anything Apple could ever do (and we know how they run Mac App Store to begin with). When the author said “Microsoft would hire me, AppGet would come with me, and they would decide if they wanted to rename it something else” , I can immediately tell that’s not how you do OSS. That would be betraying to your users and maintainers. Did Microsoft ask Nat Friedman and Miguel de Icaza to bring Mono with them to kill/rename it? No, that’s not what happened. And thats how significant open source projects/communities should work; not controlled by a single person.

kayone 6y ago
Just to be clear, I was very clear with them during our conversation that it would only happen if they committed to keeping the spirit of AppGet (which they did) I might be wrong, but I don't think to have MS behind a project like that causing it exponentially grow was a betrail of users.
a-nikolaev 6y ago
Not everyone is able or willing to develop large-scale open-source community/project.. Also, mono is a much large and more significant project that runs on Linux, not a Windows app.
- moron4hire 6y ago
  Mono also runs on Windows
comex 6y ago
> Did Microsoft ask Nat Friedman and Miguel de Icaza to bring Mono with them to kill/rename it? No, that’s not what happened. Visual Studio for Mac is sort of a renamed version of MonoDevelop...
jonhohle 6y ago
MacPorts (né DarwinPorts) was created by Apple engineers long before the App Store existed. IMHO it’s superior to Homebrew in just about every way, existed long before Homebrew and targets the same audience (unlike the App Store which is targeting a very different population). If you haven’t looked at MP lately, it’s worth reviewing.
- lysium 6y ago
  I’ve just switched from MP to HomeBrew. I’m interested in why do you think MP is superior?
  - jonhohle 6y ago
    It includes a lot of Unixy “deep cuts” that aren’t in homebrew, it doesn’t stretch an unrelated analogy into its own jargon (brew, cask, etc.), it easily allows variants of builds when the defaults won’t do, it stays sandboxed in its own namespace by default, etc. The original problem the brew developers seemed to have with MacPorts (no binary distribution) is now resolved and MP retains all of the flexibility of a source-based package manager. I also “like” sudoing package installation/removal of system packages. It’s no different from any other Unix package manager. If I’m the only user, I can chown /opt/local Or install to my home directory and run MP without sudo.
- aryonoco 6y ago
  Used it in the days it required everything to run as root (Sudo). Then discovered homebrew and have never looked back. Every package I've looked at is better maintained on brew. Why do you think MP is superior?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Installing packages for your system as a non-root user is fairly broken and Homebrew jumps through a number of questionable hoops to make this work.
    - 6y ago
toohotatopic 6y ago
>There are parts of Microsoft that understand open source. Most parts of the Windows team ain’t that The story goes that the new Microsoft understands open source at the top. A windows package manager is such an essential component of the operating system that it is visible at the top. Even more, Github, npm - package managers are at the core of their strategy. How big is the risk that the new Microsoft is just lip service and they won't respect the GitHub and npm community either?
dustinmoris 6y ago
Nobody at Microsoft understands open source. The people who pretend to understand are just glorified sales people pretending to be developers promoting every new Microsoft product regardless how shit it is or how much better other competing products are (you know who these sales people are). Microsoft loves OSS as much as they are able to control it. They are like an abusive partner who "love you" for as long as they control every step of your life but as soon as you step aside they'll grab a hammer and smash you in the face.
- tester34 6y ago
  >Nobody at Microsoft understands open source. Seriously? extreme statement even before first dot?
- alpb 6y ago
  Disagree. Clearly you don’t work on OSS as your primary job and you don’t know enough teams/people at MSFT.
- 7leafer 6y ago
  Micorsoft loves OSS as much as they are able to profit off it. Did they spend $7.5B buying github for the love of ideals? And sure enough they understand OSS for what it is better than anyone else. Thank you, creative person, here is your exposure.

by alpb 6y ago

kayone 6y ago

Just to be clear, I was very clear with them during our conversation that it would only happen if they committed to keeping the spirit of AppGet (which they did) I might be wrong, but I don't think to have MS behind a project like that causing it exponentially grow was a betrail of users.

a-nikolaev 6y ago

Not everyone is able or willing to develop large-scale open-source community/project.. Also, mono is a much large and more significant project that runs on Linux, not a Windows app.

moron4hire 6y ago
Mono also runs on Windows

comex 6y ago

> Did Microsoft ask Nat Friedman and Miguel de Icaza to bring Mono with them to kill/rename it? No, that’s not what happened. Visual Studio for Mac is sort of a renamed version of MonoDevelop...

jonhohle 6y ago

MacPorts (né DarwinPorts) was created by Apple engineers long before the App Store existed. IMHO it’s superior to Homebrew in just about every way, existed long before Homebrew and targets the same audience (unlike the App Store which is targeting a very different population). If you haven’t looked at MP lately, it’s worth reviewing.

lysium 6y ago
I’ve just switched from MP to HomeBrew. I’m interested in why do you think MP is superior?
- jonhohle 6y ago
  It includes a lot of Unixy “deep cuts” that aren’t in homebrew, it doesn’t stretch an unrelated analogy into its own jargon (brew, cask, etc.), it easily allows variants of builds when the defaults won’t do, it stays sandboxed in its own namespace by default, etc. The original problem the brew developers seemed to have with MacPorts (no binary distribution) is now resolved and MP retains all of the flexibility of a source-based package manager. I also “like” sudoing package installation/removal of system packages. It’s no different from any other Unix package manager. If I’m the only user, I can chown /opt/local Or install to my home directory and run MP without sudo.
aryonoco 6y ago
Used it in the days it required everything to run as root (Sudo). Then discovered homebrew and have never looked back. Every package I've looked at is better maintained on brew. Why do you think MP is superior?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Installing packages for your system as a non-root user is fairly broken and Homebrew jumps through a number of questionable hoops to make this work.
  - 6y ago

toohotatopic 6y ago

>There are parts of Microsoft that understand open source. Most parts of the Windows team ain’t that The story goes that the new Microsoft understands open source at the top. A windows package manager is such an essential component of the operating system that it is visible at the top. Even more, Github, npm - package managers are at the core of their strategy. How big is the risk that the new Microsoft is just lip service and they won't respect the GitHub and npm community either?

dustinmoris 6y ago

Nobody at Microsoft understands open source. The people who pretend to understand are just glorified sales people pretending to be developers promoting every new Microsoft product regardless how shit it is or how much better other competing products are (you know who these sales people are). Microsoft loves OSS as much as they are able to control it. They are like an abusive partner who "love you" for as long as they control every step of your life but as soon as you step aside they'll grab a hammer and smash you in the face.

tester34 6y ago
>Nobody at Microsoft understands open source. Seriously? extreme statement even before first dot?
alpb 6y ago
Disagree. Clearly you don’t work on OSS as your primary job and you don’t know enough teams/people at MSFT.
7leafer 6y ago
Micorsoft loves OSS as much as they are able to profit off it. Did they spend $7.5B buying github for the love of ideals? And sure enough they understand OSS for what it is better than anyone else. Thank you, creative person, here is your exposure.