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Has any group of people in history ever had so much control over public discourse at such a large scale as Facebook, or Twitter?
by banads 6y ago
Has any group of people in history ever had so much control over public discourse at such a large scale as Facebook, or Twitter?
- root_axis 6y agoFacebook and Twitter do not control public discourse.
- asjw 6y agoThey also do in the form of moderation, (secret) algorithms and suggestions based on (undisclosed) advertisers
- banads 6y agoThen who controls the code that their platforms run on, and how is FB able to conduct emotional manipulation experiments? https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/everything-we-know-about-facebooks-secret-mood-manipulation-experiment/373648/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every...
- root_axis 6y agoIf you don't want to be manipulated by Facebook then don't use it. Yes, Facebook is very popular. Anyway, don't use it.
- rmtech 6y agoThis is a silly argument. The service that Facebook offers is becoming so important that asking people not to use it is like asking people not to breathe, and over time it will become moreso.
- root_axis 6y ago> The service that Facebook offers is becoming so important that asking people not to use it is like asking people not to breathe Utterly absurd hyperbole. There are a billions of people in the world who do not use Facebook, comparing the use of Facebook to drawing breath is about as ridiculous as it gets.
- rmtech 6y agoIt's not ridiculous. If you want to have friends, promote a brand etc in the modern world you need these networks. The reason that activists engage in deplatforming activity is that it's effective at destroying movements; brands like Milo Yianopolous and Generation Identity were totally destroyed by deplatforming by a few key social networks. I can provide the evidence on those if you don't believe me.
- root_axis 6y ago> If you want to have friends, promote a brand etc in the modern world you need these networks. A total falsehood that is easily disproven by the many millions of people who have friends that don't use social media and the many thousands of successful companies that don't advertise on social media.
- banads 6y agoI quit FB many years ago, because I'm technically and historically literate. And yet there are billions of other people who are not, and who do use it, and this strongly effects my life https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect
- Avicebron 6y agoIs shaping it by selectively removing it a form of control?
- banads 6y ago>control: the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events
- Avicebron 6y agoThis is seems to indicate they are stepping into a form of control. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/everything-we-know-about-facebooks-secret-mood-manipulation-experiment/373648/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every...
- root_axis 6y agoOperational control of a website does not equate to control of public discourse. Other things exist on the internet besides social media.
- mr_toad 6y agoAre you suggesting the President is incapable of other forms of communication?
- Avicebron 6y agoObviously not, I was asking whether or not algorithmic or otherwise selectively moderated could shape how millions of the public can communicate their ideas. Let alone thought leaders and others the public interacts with to guide societal questions and answers.
- drak0n1c 6y agoIf they do not control public discourse, why were there allegations that misinformation on those platforms can affect elections? Isn't this new policy of Twitter an admission that they do affect discourse, and thus need to be more responsible?
- newacct583 6y agoWell, just off the top of my head: * The PRC government right now * Pretty much any government behind the iron curtain during the cold war * The Catholic church over much of its history ... I mean, come on. Pick any reasonably competent totalitarian regime and you'll find that one of core pillars of the support structure is precisely "control over public discourse". So maybe in context putting a fact check link under a tweet doesn't sound so bad?
- banads 6y agoTry again, your only example that comes close to the scale and number of users of FB (2.6B MAU), is PRC (1.4B citizens), and that does not exactly help your case that FB is too powerful.
- root_axis 6y agoMAUs are not a measurement of control over an individual. For the vast majority of Facebook users, Facebook is a very small slice of their life composing only a few minutes of activity per use. If someone opens up the Facebook app for 5 minutes a month they are considered a MAU. Suggesting that browsing an app for a few minutes out of a day is comparable to authoritarian control over 1.4 billion people demonstrates a complete lack of perspective in reality.
- banads 6y agoWhat measurement would you suggest we use to approximate the number of people whose communication is under the control of a particular organization? >If someone opens up the Facebook app for 5 minutes a month they are considered a MAU. Suggesting that browsing an app for a few minutes out of a day is comparable to authoritarian control over 1.4 billion people demonstrates a complete lack of perspective in reality. Your strawman is what lacks perspective of reality. The average FB user spends 30-60 minutes on Facebook each day, depending on the source.
- root_axis 6y ago
- m1sta_ 6y agoRupert Murdoch
- banads 6y agoZuckerberg > Murdoch