8 ms·

Come to Canada. Specific tech hot spots are Vancouver/Waterloo/Toronto/Montreal. The weather and healthcare are things you need to get used to, but gorgeous en

Come to Canada. Specific tech hot spots are Vancouver/Waterloo/Toronto/Montreal. The weather and healthcare are things you need to get used to, but gorgeous environment with friendly, diverse, and well educated population.

PopeDotNinja 6y ago
What are salaries for top quartile developers in Canada?
- gregsadetsky 6y ago
  Average of ~~60-70k CAD in Toronto, depending on experience, specific domain, etc. Levels.fyi shows a much higher median of 130k USD for the whole country, but is also based on many FAANG jobs -- https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Canada/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Canada/ See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11806441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11806441
  - srle 6y ago
    The 130k USD is 1000% actually supposed to be CAD. Canadian salaries are pretty awful, and it’s not uncommon to see job listings looking for a sr eng with 8 years of exp and offering like 90-110k. Outliers exist, but even for top tier companies Canadian compensation is gonna be lower. Not a bad place if you’ve got persistent health issues or maybe if you want to raise a family, but other than that it’s pretty shitty IMO. I’m personally going to try my hardest to move down south as soon as this corona stuff starts settling down.
    - hopfscotch 6y ago
      There is political violence on the horizon in the US. I would not come here. I'm looking for a way out myself.
      - jnbiche 6y ago
        I agree. I'm surprised more HNers aren't aware of this potential. To be clear, I condemn those pushing us toward political violence, but it has a decent chance of arriving in the next 6-12 months even.
        carapace 6y ago
        War with Mexico?
        jnbiche 6y ago
        No, no. Internal civil strife.
        carapace 6y ago
        Sorry, I was kinda trolling. I don't get out much but it doesn't seem likely to me that internal civil strife will actually break out in widespread violence. Who would fight whom, and to what end? A lot of us are mad at each other, sure, but we don't really want to shoot each other. South Park did a whole episode on it.
        hopfscotch 6y ago
        I disagree. You don’t really want to shoot people, but others do. It’s hard to understand, but violence always is.
        sizzle 6y ago
        That's a big claim, please provide some sources if you are to be believed otherwise it's just unsubstantiated fear mongering
        jnbiche 6y ago
        So the Minneapolis 3rd Police Precinct headquarters was just overrun, weapons seized, and burned down by hundreds of citizens. National Guard and SWAT are en route. Are you still so sure about the idea of internal civil strife being "unsubstantiated fear mongering"? And by the way, race-based civil conflict is only a small part of the structural problems I'm worried about. There are multiple deeper, more dangerous threats on the horizon. For example, are you sure that Trump will peacefully vacate the office if he loses the election? If not, what exactly do you think will happen then? Finally, not that this matters a whole lot to me, but to provide you with "substantiation" that you may accept, many mainstream media outlets have covered this in detail in the past year or two. Here are just a couple, Google keywords such as "US civil war 2" (just "civil war" turns up Avengers stuff) and "boogaloo" for more mainstream media coverage: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-america-talk-turns-to-something-unspoken-for-150-years-civil-war/2019/02/28/b3733af8-3ae4-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-america-talk-turn... https://www.macleans.ca/society/america-is-deeply-divided-and-some-say-its-only-going-to-get-worse/ https://www.macleans.ca/society/america-is-deeply-divided-an...
    - poulsbohemian 6y ago
      >Canadian salaries are pretty awful, Y'know, for years I heard this same basic story about everywhere in Europe too, IE: the money is no good. As I age though... money really isn't everything... if you can make enough to pay your bills and have a quality life, I'd take that over the rat race of the US. When the kids are raised here, my partner and I aren't likely to stick around, so I am watching this thread with great interest as well. And hoping all of you fleeing places of persecution make it safely to better places.
      - nucleardog 6y ago
        Even if money is everything, you really need to look at the whole picture. Unless you're looking at spending your money back in the US, then you need to look at what it buys you locally and whether it can buy you the same quality of life. Some quick math and random internet sources, and moving from Vancouver to Silicon Valley would net me about a 40% haircut just on the increased cost of living. I currently pay taxes on par with California. (Just looking at state/provincial+federal. No FICA/CPP/etc.) Locally, we have offices for Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Hootsuite, Slack, Salesforce, Disney, Samsung, SAP, Sony, Oracle, MasterCard, Activision, Capcom, etc, etc. Lots of options. Looking at some average salaries in Silicon Valley, it'd pretty much be a wash on the increased pay versus the increased expenses. And I have no doubt if I dig around I can tip that more in my favour. For instance, I visited an emergency room once this year and my wife had a difficult delivery when our daughter was born. I'm currently down about $100 on an ambulance ride, parking at the women & children's hospital, and coffee while I was living at the hospital. I have no doubt that could have easily eaten up the difference even with insurance. And I certainly wouldn't put the quality of life in Canada as worse than the US.
- 0xBeefFed 6y ago
  https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Canada/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Canada/ Just be aware, the data is supposed to be in USD, but some people may still be reporting CAD.
- OmarIsmail 6y ago
  The top tech companies (Shopify, Google, Stripe remote) pay very well (managers will be > 200k salary + bonus and equity). Local tech companies pay well (120-160k + equity) relative to other types of jobs but low relative to US and top tech companies. If you're at a top tech company you're doing better relative to non tech than in the US. If you're left of center politically it's also way less stressful in Canada compared to US.
artsyca 6y ago
Stay out of Toronto there's no way to live in that city

PopeDotNinja 6y ago

What are salaries for top quartile developers in Canada?

gregsadetsky 6y ago
Average of ~~60-70k CAD in Toronto, depending on experience, specific domain, etc. Levels.fyi shows a much higher median of 130k USD for the whole country, but is also based on many FAANG jobs -- https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Canada/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Canada/ See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11806441 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11806441
- srle 6y ago
  The 130k USD is 1000% actually supposed to be CAD. Canadian salaries are pretty awful, and it’s not uncommon to see job listings looking for a sr eng with 8 years of exp and offering like 90-110k. Outliers exist, but even for top tier companies Canadian compensation is gonna be lower. Not a bad place if you’ve got persistent health issues or maybe if you want to raise a family, but other than that it’s pretty shitty IMO. I’m personally going to try my hardest to move down south as soon as this corona stuff starts settling down.
  - hopfscotch 6y ago
    There is political violence on the horizon in the US. I would not come here. I'm looking for a way out myself.
    - jnbiche 6y ago
      I agree. I'm surprised more HNers aren't aware of this potential. To be clear, I condemn those pushing us toward political violence, but it has a decent chance of arriving in the next 6-12 months even.
      - carapace 6y ago
        War with Mexico?
        jnbiche 6y ago
        No, no. Internal civil strife.
        carapace 6y ago
        Sorry, I was kinda trolling. I don't get out much but it doesn't seem likely to me that internal civil strife will actually break out in widespread violence. Who would fight whom, and to what end? A lot of us are mad at each other, sure, but we don't really want to shoot each other. South Park did a whole episode on it.
        hopfscotch 6y ago
        I disagree. You don’t really want to shoot people, but others do. It’s hard to understand, but violence always is.
      - sizzle 6y ago
        That's a big claim, please provide some sources if you are to be believed otherwise it's just unsubstantiated fear mongering
        jnbiche 6y ago
        So the Minneapolis 3rd Police Precinct headquarters was just overrun, weapons seized, and burned down by hundreds of citizens. National Guard and SWAT are en route. Are you still so sure about the idea of internal civil strife being "unsubstantiated fear mongering"? And by the way, race-based civil conflict is only a small part of the structural problems I'm worried about. There are multiple deeper, more dangerous threats on the horizon. For example, are you sure that Trump will peacefully vacate the office if he loses the election? If not, what exactly do you think will happen then? Finally, not that this matters a whole lot to me, but to provide you with "substantiation" that you may accept, many mainstream media outlets have covered this in detail in the past year or two. Here are just a couple, Google keywords such as "US civil war 2" (just "civil war" turns up Avengers stuff) and "boogaloo" for more mainstream media coverage: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-america-talk-turns-to-something-unspoken-for-150-years-civil-war/2019/02/28/b3733af8-3ae4-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-america-talk-turn... https://www.macleans.ca/society/america-is-deeply-divided-and-some-say-its-only-going-to-get-worse/ https://www.macleans.ca/society/america-is-deeply-divided-an...
  - poulsbohemian 6y ago
    >Canadian salaries are pretty awful, Y'know, for years I heard this same basic story about everywhere in Europe too, IE: the money is no good. As I age though... money really isn't everything... if you can make enough to pay your bills and have a quality life, I'd take that over the rat race of the US. When the kids are raised here, my partner and I aren't likely to stick around, so I am watching this thread with great interest as well. And hoping all of you fleeing places of persecution make it safely to better places.
    - nucleardog 6y ago
      Even if money is everything, you really need to look at the whole picture. Unless you're looking at spending your money back in the US, then you need to look at what it buys you locally and whether it can buy you the same quality of life. Some quick math and random internet sources, and moving from Vancouver to Silicon Valley would net me about a 40% haircut just on the increased cost of living. I currently pay taxes on par with California. (Just looking at state/provincial+federal. No FICA/CPP/etc.) Locally, we have offices for Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Hootsuite, Slack, Salesforce, Disney, Samsung, SAP, Sony, Oracle, MasterCard, Activision, Capcom, etc, etc. Lots of options. Looking at some average salaries in Silicon Valley, it'd pretty much be a wash on the increased pay versus the increased expenses. And I have no doubt if I dig around I can tip that more in my favour. For instance, I visited an emergency room once this year and my wife had a difficult delivery when our daughter was born. I'm currently down about $100 on an ambulance ride, parking at the women & children's hospital, and coffee while I was living at the hospital. I have no doubt that could have easily eaten up the difference even with insurance. And I certainly wouldn't put the quality of life in Canada as worse than the US.
0xBeefFed 6y ago
https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Canada/ https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Canada/ Just be aware, the data is supposed to be in USD, but some people may still be reporting CAD.
OmarIsmail 6y ago
The top tech companies (Shopify, Google, Stripe remote) pay very well (managers will be > 200k salary + bonus and equity). Local tech companies pay well (120-160k + equity) relative to other types of jobs but low relative to US and top tech companies. If you're at a top tech company you're doing better relative to non tech than in the US. If you're left of center politically it's also way less stressful in Canada compared to US.

artsyca 6y ago

Stay out of Toronto there's no way to live in that city