9 ms·

Interestingly, job priorities for men and women are not the same[1] : Men place higher importance on "Languages, frameworks, and other technologies I'd be worki

Interestingly, job priorities for men and women are not the same[1] : Men place higher importance on "Languages, frameworks, and other technologies I'd be working with", while for women, "Office environment or company culture" and "Flex time or a flexible schedule" come first. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#work-most-important-job-factors https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#work-most-imp...

HideousKojima 6y ago
Another data point against the wage gap being a result of sexism
- 0xEFF 6y ago
  Except people who have flexible schedules are generally paid more.
  - tick_tock_tick 6y ago
    Working flexible hours when the company chooses the hours normally pays more but working flexible hours when you choose the hours normally pays less.
    - zerr 6y ago
      No, it means you're a consultant and charge premium.
- wwright 6y ago
  How do you tie this correlation to the negative of that causation?
- elliekelly 6y ago
  Women are more likely than men to adjust their work schedules in order to provide childcare[1] because we have entrenched gender expectations about who "should" shoulder what responsibilities in a heterosexual relationship. [1]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-than-men-adjust-their-careers-for-family-life/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-...
  - kelvin0 6y ago
    Having a human growing inside you for 9 months creates a pretty special and undeniable bond. No men have yet given birth (yet?).
    - elliekelly 6y ago
      And how does growing a human make someone more qualified to shuttle kids back and forth to after school activities?
      - koheripbal 6y ago
        I know your question is not serious, but there are actually a large number of genetic behavioral differences between men and women that make them more easily accustomed to child care. It's no surprise that the childcare/teaching industries are almost entirely made up of women.
        elliekelly 6y ago
        My question was genuine, if absurd. And I would ask the same of you: Which “genetic behavioral differences,” specifically, make someone more qualified to shuttle kids back and forth to after school activities? There’s also some research that over-representation of women as K-12 teachers is responsible for the growing education gap where men are falling behind women. It isn’t just women who are held back by gender stereotypes.
        kelvin0 6y ago
        I think your questions assume a lot of things: - Women do most of the shuttling of kids? I've yet to see any evidence of this. - There are differences between the genders, but 'genetic behavioral differences' is a very broad and deep assumption regarding nature vs nurture and opens a whole other spectrum of basic questions. - Over representation of a gender in some particular field. Being equal does not mean we all have the same aptitudes and interests.
        6y ago
wwright 6y ago
I'd imagine that is correlated to the significantly higher percentage of non-cisgender/non-male people who report harassment and abuse in workplaces.
decafninja 6y ago
I'm a guy, and I place higher importance in the latter (with women) more than the former. There's a few technologies I actively try to avoid (.NET, etc.) but otherwise I'm open minded. But I am much more peculiar on what kind of company environment and culture I want to work for. Call me trivial, but I really, really, don't want to work for any company that forces me to wear business casual (or worse). It's not just the dress code that irks me, but the wider culture it typically implies. In fact, the reason I'm adverse to certain tech like .NET is also related to company type/culture that would use such tech, more so than the actual tech itself. I happen to like C#.
- lol768 6y ago
  > In fact, the reason I'm adverse to certain tech like .NET is also related to company type/culture that would use such tech, more so than the actual tech itself. I happen to like C#. This is interesting to read - what does a .NET company type look like to you? (And follow-up, does that stereotype assume developing on Windows with .NET Framework; does it hold for .NET Core?)
  - decafninja 6y ago
    Mostly of the "software/tech as an unrespected cost center" kind. Ties in with my other bit about "must wear business casual". Now I know not all companies using .NET are like that of course, but a huge majority do seem to be. Disclaimer: I started my career, and spent most of it, as a .NET dev. Does anyone really use .NET Core in production? Maybe in certain locales and industries only? I've been on the job hunt for a while, talked to and interviewed at numerous companies, and I've yet to encounter a single company advertising that they use .NET Core.
    - tester756 6y ago
      I've been using .NET Core on prod for like 2 years Friends from other companies are also using .NET Core whenever they can, so yea. Eastern Europe here.
    - kinjba1 6y ago
codemac 6y ago
You have to imagine this is largely that women can't take company/workgroup culture for granted like many men can.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  What do you mean? Are women more adversely affected by certain types of common work environments?
  - Washuu 6y ago
    Speaking from experience: Bro culture. When going to work feels like sitting in the corner of a seedy frat house trying to ignore the stench in the air. Regular beer/bar outings. Outside of bro culture there is the standard issues women deal with in the work place.(Being ignored/hepeating/mansplaining.) So having a higher priority for good office environment and work place culture makes sense.
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      That usually has more to do with the age of the people you work with than the company culture.

HideousKojima 6y ago

Another data point against the wage gap being a result of sexism

0xEFF 6y ago
Except people who have flexible schedules are generally paid more.
- tick_tock_tick 6y ago
  Working flexible hours when the company chooses the hours normally pays more but working flexible hours when you choose the hours normally pays less.
  - zerr 6y ago
    No, it means you're a consultant and charge premium.
wwright 6y ago
How do you tie this correlation to the negative of that causation?
elliekelly 6y ago
Women are more likely than men to adjust their work schedules in order to provide childcare[1] because we have entrenched gender expectations about who "should" shoulder what responsibilities in a heterosexual relationship. [1]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-than-men-adjust-their-careers-for-family-life/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-...
- kelvin0 6y ago
  Having a human growing inside you for 9 months creates a pretty special and undeniable bond. No men have yet given birth (yet?).
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    And how does growing a human make someone more qualified to shuttle kids back and forth to after school activities?
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      I know your question is not serious, but there are actually a large number of genetic behavioral differences between men and women that make them more easily accustomed to child care. It's no surprise that the childcare/teaching industries are almost entirely made up of women.
      - elliekelly 6y ago
        My question was genuine, if absurd. And I would ask the same of you: Which “genetic behavioral differences,” specifically, make someone more qualified to shuttle kids back and forth to after school activities? There’s also some research that over-representation of women as K-12 teachers is responsible for the growing education gap where men are falling behind women. It isn’t just women who are held back by gender stereotypes.
        kelvin0 6y ago
        I think your questions assume a lot of things: - Women do most of the shuttling of kids? I've yet to see any evidence of this. - There are differences between the genders, but 'genetic behavioral differences' is a very broad and deep assumption regarding nature vs nurture and opens a whole other spectrum of basic questions. - Over representation of a gender in some particular field. Being equal does not mean we all have the same aptitudes and interests.
      - 6y ago

wwright 6y ago

I'd imagine that is correlated to the significantly higher percentage of non-cisgender/non-male people who report harassment and abuse in workplaces.

decafninja 6y ago

I'm a guy, and I place higher importance in the latter (with women) more than the former. There's a few technologies I actively try to avoid (.NET, etc.) but otherwise I'm open minded. But I am much more peculiar on what kind of company environment and culture I want to work for. Call me trivial, but I really, really, don't want to work for any company that forces me to wear business casual (or worse). It's not just the dress code that irks me, but the wider culture it typically implies. In fact, the reason I'm adverse to certain tech like .NET is also related to company type/culture that would use such tech, more so than the actual tech itself. I happen to like C#.

lol768 6y ago
> In fact, the reason I'm adverse to certain tech like .NET is also related to company type/culture that would use such tech, more so than the actual tech itself. I happen to like C#. This is interesting to read - what does a .NET company type look like to you? (And follow-up, does that stereotype assume developing on Windows with .NET Framework; does it hold for .NET Core?)
- decafninja 6y ago
  Mostly of the "software/tech as an unrespected cost center" kind. Ties in with my other bit about "must wear business casual". Now I know not all companies using .NET are like that of course, but a huge majority do seem to be. Disclaimer: I started my career, and spent most of it, as a .NET dev. Does anyone really use .NET Core in production? Maybe in certain locales and industries only? I've been on the job hunt for a while, talked to and interviewed at numerous companies, and I've yet to encounter a single company advertising that they use .NET Core.
  - tester756 6y ago
    I've been using .NET Core on prod for like 2 years Friends from other companies are also using .NET Core whenever they can, so yea. Eastern Europe here.
  - kinjba1 6y ago

codemac 6y ago

You have to imagine this is largely that women can't take company/workgroup culture for granted like many men can.

koheripbal 6y ago
What do you mean? Are women more adversely affected by certain types of common work environments?
- Washuu 6y ago
  Speaking from experience: Bro culture. When going to work feels like sitting in the corner of a seedy frat house trying to ignore the stench in the air. Regular beer/bar outings. Outside of bro culture there is the standard issues women deal with in the work place.(Being ignored/hepeating/mansplaining.) So having a higher priority for good office environment and work place culture makes sense.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    That usually has more to do with the age of the people you work with than the company culture.