4 ms·
You are misconstruing Hanson. He's not saying that we should mass-variolate tomorrow. He just wants it to be legal for such experiments to be tried (including e
by ggreer 6y ago
You are misconstruing Hanson. He's not saying that we should mass-variolate tomorrow. He just wants it to be legal for such experiments to be tried (including experiments with unproven vaccines). There are doctors and domain experts who are willing to try this approach, and there are volunteers who are willing to be infected. The problem is that our institutions have made such trials illegal.
It looks like at least half the population will contract this disease over the next couple of years. Around 0.5% of those will die. If we wait until an extremely safe vaccine is mass produced, far more lives will be lost than if we use methods that the authorities consider unsafe. The main issue seems to be that people attribute COVID-19 deaths to nature, while they blame any experimental immunity deaths on the researchers. It's the same logic that anti-vaxxers use. Yes, some vaccines do have side-effects and every once in a while, someone does die from them. But that's a far better outcome than the disease itself, so we accept the tradeoff.
As I said, in this emergency, around 0.5% of people infected will die. That means that a treatment with a 0.1% mortality rate would reduce overall deaths by 4x! That's a far more effective intervention than say... ventilators (which only reduce mortality by around 20%). Yet no government will allow volunteers to get a treatment with such a high mortality rate, so we're all stuck with "natural" infection and its 0.5% mortality. This is peacetime thinking in the middle of a war.
It should be clear by now that our institutions have failed us. The CDC & FDA forbade researchers from testing for a month. It's only because some researchers decided to break the law that we discovered community spread when we did.[1] The Surgeon General repeatedly told the public that masks don't work.[2][3] The WHO said the same thing.[4][5]
If we judged these institutions by the same standard that people in this thread are using for Robin Hanson, we'd want to drastically curtail their power and allow for more experiments. That's exactly what Hanson is proposing.
1. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-de...
2. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160 https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...
3. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1245697453413851136 https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12456974534138511...
4. https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1234095938555260929 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1234095938555260929
5. https://twitter.com/WHOWPRO/status/1243171683067777024 https://twitter.com/WHOWPRO/status/1243171683067777024
- ttfkam 6y agoFolks are still justifiably gun shy about Tuskegee and the various eugenicist procedures from the 20th century. The reason we have restrictions on this kind of thing is precisely because it has been grossly abused whenever it has been permitted in the US. And yet it's still being discussed, not dismissed outright by the experts. I for one am happy with allowing epidemiologists and virologists to lead the discussion, but not economists and political appointees. No way. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/why-have-14-000-people-volunteered-be-infected-coronavirus-n1203931 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/why-have-14-000-p... Trump has so far advocated for not wearing masks, inciting armed (white) citizens to storm state capital buildings, the use of hydroxychloroquine despite being found now to be worse than ineffective, sidelined Fauci (going so far as to retweet a call for his removal), and other nonsense, all to boost economic numbers for November and/or fulfill a (toxic) political ideology. And you want the likes of him to determine the best course of action for fighting disease? F— that noise. If the health research community looks at the problem and decides it's a good idea, I'm on board. Everyone else can take a huge fat seat in their La-Z-Boy and STFU about how soon human trials should begin.
- ttfkam 6y agoRegarding the Surgeon General's tweets: https://www.newsmax.com/us/surgeon-general-face-masks-jerome-adams-asymptomatic-spread/2020/05/14/id/967475/ https://www.newsmax.com/us/surgeon-general-face-masks-jerome... See earlier note about political appointees, especially by this administration. This isn't about health for them; it's about PR. Countries where its citizens wear masks have done much better against the disease. Countries where citizens claim "freedom" from wearing masks have just tallied 100,000 deaths so far. Japan has an extremely high population density. One of the highest proportions of elderly citizens in the world. Had cases arrive earlier there than in the US, so less warning. 869 deaths so far total. Why? For the most part, masks. Everywhere. Everyone. That and not waiting until it was too late to shut down public gatherings and schools. In other words, they had adults in charge and its citizens don't treat basic precautions like masks as some sort of tyrannical plot against democracy. (Last I checked, Japan was still a democracy.) Grow up. Wear the damn masks already.