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Dropbox and Airbnb are two of the most revolutionary products (alongside the iPhone, 802.11b, etc) I have ever used. I can't speak to Dropbox, but Airbnb isn't

by nupark 16y ago

Dropbox and Airbnb are two of the most revolutionary products (alongside the iPhone, 802.11b, etc) I have ever used. I can't speak to Dropbox, but Airbnb isn't really a revolutionary idea from the user perspective (although they get a lot of play here for being a YC company). http://www.vrbo.com/ http://www.vrbo.com/ has been around since 1995. They were purchased in 2006 by HomeAway, who just filed for a $230 million IPO. VRBO's model is different, in that they provide a classifieds service rather than actually handling the transaction directly; on the other hand, I've had much better luck finding good temporary apartment rentals in NYC using VRBO. I'm not saying that AirBNB isn't useful -- or that there isn't some value in them handling transaction directly, but rather, that they're not really that revolutionary, and should they succeed in bridging the gap from "rent an air mattress" to "rent unlicensed privately managed hotel rooms," they'll likely find themselves falling afoul of local regulations and the neighborhood's ire. The "Three Big Myths About Illegal Hotels" are a good read: http://www.frommers.com/articles/6912.html http://www.frommers.com/articles/6912.html

pclark 16y ago
I meant for me personally
pg 16y ago
You have a mistaken view of what makes a technology revolutionary. Sometimes what seems to outsiders like a minor design tweak makes something immensely better. For example, Watt didn't invent the steam engine. His big discovery (he also made several smaller ones) was something called the separate condenser. Unless you're fairly knowledgeable about steam engines, you'll have to look that up to know what it means. But this tweak to Newcomen's design was so important that it caused a qualitative change in the way steam engines were used.
- lurker14 16y ago
  Is AirBnB eating VRBOs lunch? Reaching an untapped market? Or is AirBnB a small (and staying small) player getting disproportionate lot of attention in the YC/HN world because they have friends here? I'm not saying AirBnB is wrong or unsuccessful, just suggesting that sometimes "world-changing" really means "my friends and I personally like these guys better, so the other ones don't count".
  - pg 16y ago
    Yes, Airbnb is eating VRBO's lunch. They and Dropbox are at this point the most successful of all the 253 startups we've funded. Fred Wilson knows some of the details. That's why he wrote this unprecedented post about missing them. If you don't understand the details of a situation, why not default to being nice instead of mean? Just look at the contrast in tone between Fred's blog post and your comment.
    - nupark 16y ago
      I'm curious -- VRBO could easily pivot and handle transactions themselves, directly. Instead they've chosen to offer optional insurance: http://guarantee.homeaway.com/vrbo/ http://guarantee.homeaway.com/vrbo/ Why is that? Intuitively, it seems like handling transactions directly would paint a target on their back in regards to the unlicensed hotel business, where regulatory and community concern appears to be a growing issue -- but I may not understand the details of the situation.
      - raghus 16y ago
        I'm curious -- VRBO could easily pivot and handle transactions themselves, directly. Instead they've chosen to offer optional insurance: In general it is true that BigCo X could do function/feature/integrate Y and totally kill Startup Z - but it doesn't happen all that much.
        nupark 16y ago
        In general it is true that BigCo X could do function/feature/integrate Y and totally kill Startup Z - but it doesn't happen all that much. I asked why they haven't done it. You haven't really addressed that -- you're attacking a strawman. I'm simply curious as to why VRBO's parent company hasn't decided to handle bookings directly. VRBO already supports transaction processing -- they use it to sell the listings. They also went to all the effort of providing a consumer insurance service. Why didn't they add support for processing the booking transaction directly and guarantee it as a matter of course? My guess is that because to do so would wading into a regulatory quagmire, and as an established company (rather than a disruptive startup), they have more to lose. Maybe Airbnb knows this, too, but is hoping to get away with it anyway -- at least long enough to either change the regulatory environment, or see their exit and leave the problem to someone else (see: napster) ... .. but I could be wrong, so I asked the person who has the details :)
rhizome 16y ago
http://www.vrbo.com/ http://www.vrbo.com/ has been around since 1995 And it looks (and operates) like it. VRBO's virtual head has been on the virtual chopping block for YEARS. Truly a stale opportunity, though I don't know if Airbnb will be the executioner. The acquisition and resulting IPO for the parent company can be best considered as a flip, not a vote of confidence.

by nupark 16y ago

pclark 16y ago

I meant for me personally

pg 16y ago

You have a mistaken view of what makes a technology revolutionary. Sometimes what seems to outsiders like a minor design tweak makes something immensely better. For example, Watt didn't invent the steam engine. His big discovery (he also made several smaller ones) was something called the separate condenser. Unless you're fairly knowledgeable about steam engines, you'll have to look that up to know what it means. But this tweak to Newcomen's design was so important that it caused a qualitative change in the way steam engines were used.

lurker14 16y ago
Is AirBnB eating VRBOs lunch? Reaching an untapped market? Or is AirBnB a small (and staying small) player getting disproportionate lot of attention in the YC/HN world because they have friends here? I'm not saying AirBnB is wrong or unsuccessful, just suggesting that sometimes "world-changing" really means "my friends and I personally like these guys better, so the other ones don't count".
- pg 16y ago
  Yes, Airbnb is eating VRBO's lunch. They and Dropbox are at this point the most successful of all the 253 startups we've funded. Fred Wilson knows some of the details. That's why he wrote this unprecedented post about missing them. If you don't understand the details of a situation, why not default to being nice instead of mean? Just look at the contrast in tone between Fred's blog post and your comment.
  - nupark 16y ago
    I'm curious -- VRBO could easily pivot and handle transactions themselves, directly. Instead they've chosen to offer optional insurance: http://guarantee.homeaway.com/vrbo/ http://guarantee.homeaway.com/vrbo/ Why is that? Intuitively, it seems like handling transactions directly would paint a target on their back in regards to the unlicensed hotel business, where regulatory and community concern appears to be a growing issue -- but I may not understand the details of the situation.
    - raghus 16y ago
      I'm curious -- VRBO could easily pivot and handle transactions themselves, directly. Instead they've chosen to offer optional insurance: In general it is true that BigCo X could do function/feature/integrate Y and totally kill Startup Z - but it doesn't happen all that much.
      - nupark 16y ago
        In general it is true that BigCo X could do function/feature/integrate Y and totally kill Startup Z - but it doesn't happen all that much. I asked why they haven't done it. You haven't really addressed that -- you're attacking a strawman. I'm simply curious as to why VRBO's parent company hasn't decided to handle bookings directly. VRBO already supports transaction processing -- they use it to sell the listings. They also went to all the effort of providing a consumer insurance service. Why didn't they add support for processing the booking transaction directly and guarantee it as a matter of course? My guess is that because to do so would wading into a regulatory quagmire, and as an established company (rather than a disruptive startup), they have more to lose. Maybe Airbnb knows this, too, but is hoping to get away with it anyway -- at least long enough to either change the regulatory environment, or see their exit and leave the problem to someone else (see: napster) ... .. but I could be wrong, so I asked the person who has the details :)

rhizome 16y ago

http://www.vrbo.com/ http://www.vrbo.com/ has been around since 1995 And it looks (and operates) like it. VRBO's virtual head has been on the virtual chopping block for YEARS. Truly a stale opportunity, though I don't know if Airbnb will be the executioner. The acquisition and resulting IPO for the parent company can be best considered as a flip, not a vote of confidence.