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But my point is that most people don’t care. Certainly the ones who buy a Tesla don’t. This is like arguing that the iPhone is a bad phone because it doesn’t h

by jm4 6y ago

But my point is that most people don’t care. Certainly the ones who buy a Tesla don’t. This is like arguing that the iPhone is a bad phone because it doesn’t have a removable battery. For some, that’s a real issue. It may have been somewhat controversial in the beginning. These days no one cares because it hasn’t turned out to be a major issue for most. A bunch of manufacturers find ways to get owners back to the dealership. Sure, Tesla has more lock in than most, but try taking any other electric car to an independent mechanic. Or a high end import.

close04 6y ago
> But my point is that most people don’t care. Plenty do, they just also want a premium electric car despite the downsides, not because it has none. You just keep oscillating between your point being that "you" don't care, or "most people" don't care. I think the biggest single disadvantage Tesla has compared to other manufacturers is the service network, either dedicated or partnerships. Even in places where there's no "dealership mafia" like the EU. Outside of internet discussions where someone needed to convince themselves that everyone shares their point of view I never met a person who said "I don't care how much my personal car costs to repair, how long it takes, or how many hoops I have to jump through to do it". Definitely not after they faced the challenges. Some may afford to absorb the extra costs but this doesn't mean they don't care.
- jm4 6y ago
  Sure, the service network is a weakness, but it's partially mitigated by the fact that there's far less service for which you need to return to Tesla than there is with other cars. In practice, it's just not a major concern because there's no dealer maintenance schedule. You're not taking it in every few months like with a gas car. You fill the wiper fluid, you get the tires rotated and you change the tires once in a while. You can take it almost anywhere for tires. Brakes aren't an issue because you hardly use them in a Tesla. The rest is mostly warranty type stuff you'd go back to the dealer for anyway and collision repair which sucks no matter what you drive. It's just not really as much of an issue as critics want to make it out to be. I've never had a lower maintenance car in my life. People are on here talking about suspension replacements and other high mileage repairs and most people, particularly the ones who buy a Tesla, won't own the car long enough to be concerned about that.
  - close04 6y ago
    > there's far less service for which you need I'm thinking more like fixing even a minor fender bender. Anecdote but I personally know of someone from an Eastern European country who had to ferry the damaged Tesla Model 3 on a platform to a neighboring country to repair it because that was the closest authorized garage. It took months and the insurance premium exploded. You get a simple cracked headlight? There are no aftermarket parts, and even if you have an original one no garage can "legally" install it. Knowing someone in a Tesla authorized service partner I can confirm the practices are... not great. According to the agreement they signed to become an authorized partner and under the threat of withdrawing said authorization, they have quite a few limitations that make for longer wait times and more expensive repairs. They are not allowed to order extra parts for stock (they have to "tie" them to a car in service) and they are not allowed to use aftermarket replacement parts, only consumables. These are real issues and even if recently I was looking for electrics I just wasn't willing to take the chance. I have to consider the plausible worst case when making a purchase decision. The yearly maintenance for my car just meant a maximum 45 minute visit to the nearest shop to my office that I did in the morning on my way to work. > high mileage repairs and most people, particularly the ones who buy a Tesla, won't own the car long enough to be concerned about that That's not good advertisement for a car. You're saying it's great as long as you can get rid of it fast enough? I'd really like to have the option to stick with the car without such caveats. I mean every car's maintenance increases with age and perhaps Teslas today involve the same overall effort and expense except distributed differently over the lifecycle (lower than average for the first few years, through your nose when it gets old). This may be ok for expensive cars like an Model X or an MB S-class, but not for something like a Model 3. And it suggests the very same Tesla owners talk out of both sides of their mouths. On one hand they are just trying to be green, on the other they're changing cars every few years? Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a justification, just pointing out the dissonance.

by jm4 6y ago

close04 6y ago

> But my point is that most people don’t care. Plenty do, they just also want a premium electric car despite the downsides, not because it has none. You just keep oscillating between your point being that "you" don't care, or "most people" don't care. I think the biggest single disadvantage Tesla has compared to other manufacturers is the service network, either dedicated or partnerships. Even in places where there's no "dealership mafia" like the EU. Outside of internet discussions where someone needed to convince themselves that everyone shares their point of view I never met a person who said "I don't care how much my personal car costs to repair, how long it takes, or how many hoops I have to jump through to do it". Definitely not after they faced the challenges. Some may afford to absorb the extra costs but this doesn't mean they don't care.

jm4 6y ago
Sure, the service network is a weakness, but it's partially mitigated by the fact that there's far less service for which you need to return to Tesla than there is with other cars. In practice, it's just not a major concern because there's no dealer maintenance schedule. You're not taking it in every few months like with a gas car. You fill the wiper fluid, you get the tires rotated and you change the tires once in a while. You can take it almost anywhere for tires. Brakes aren't an issue because you hardly use them in a Tesla. The rest is mostly warranty type stuff you'd go back to the dealer for anyway and collision repair which sucks no matter what you drive. It's just not really as much of an issue as critics want to make it out to be. I've never had a lower maintenance car in my life. People are on here talking about suspension replacements and other high mileage repairs and most people, particularly the ones who buy a Tesla, won't own the car long enough to be concerned about that.
- close04 6y ago
  > there's far less service for which you need I'm thinking more like fixing even a minor fender bender. Anecdote but I personally know of someone from an Eastern European country who had to ferry the damaged Tesla Model 3 on a platform to a neighboring country to repair it because that was the closest authorized garage. It took months and the insurance premium exploded. You get a simple cracked headlight? There are no aftermarket parts, and even if you have an original one no garage can "legally" install it. Knowing someone in a Tesla authorized service partner I can confirm the practices are... not great. According to the agreement they signed to become an authorized partner and under the threat of withdrawing said authorization, they have quite a few limitations that make for longer wait times and more expensive repairs. They are not allowed to order extra parts for stock (they have to "tie" them to a car in service) and they are not allowed to use aftermarket replacement parts, only consumables. These are real issues and even if recently I was looking for electrics I just wasn't willing to take the chance. I have to consider the plausible worst case when making a purchase decision. The yearly maintenance for my car just meant a maximum 45 minute visit to the nearest shop to my office that I did in the morning on my way to work. > high mileage repairs and most people, particularly the ones who buy a Tesla, won't own the car long enough to be concerned about that That's not good advertisement for a car. You're saying it's great as long as you can get rid of it fast enough? I'd really like to have the option to stick with the car without such caveats. I mean every car's maintenance increases with age and perhaps Teslas today involve the same overall effort and expense except distributed differently over the lifecycle (lower than average for the first few years, through your nose when it gets old). This may be ok for expensive cars like an Model X or an MB S-class, but not for something like a Model 3. And it suggests the very same Tesla owners talk out of both sides of their mouths. On one hand they are just trying to be green, on the other they're changing cars every few years? Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a justification, just pointing out the dissonance.