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More of a meta question: but why should all undergrad degrees be 4 years? Why should an undergrad in computer science and one in AI be the same length of time?

More of a meta question: but why should all undergrad degrees be 4 years? Why should an undergrad in computer science and one in AI be the same length of time? Was it created because a school wants to charge the same amount regardless of major? Or because 4 years is an acceptable proportion of a human life to spend studying to obtain a white collar job half a century ago? Or some other reason? (Related, why do people want the 4 year degree as a pre-requisite for most jobs? Why do some jobs -- law and medicine -- require 3 and 4 year degrees on top of it? Why is the CFA happy with 3 years of tests on your own time?)

mettamage 6y ago
I think it shouldn't. It's simply used as a heuristic or a comparison against actual degrees. If you know what you want to build and can optimize a curriculum towards it, then go for it. For people that just want "fundamental knowledge" in a field. Knowing that they spend about 5% of their life on it, is probably a way of feeling that they have spent enough time on it.
unishark 6y ago
Mainly cultural reasons I'd say. In some countries you jump right into a professional program like medicine right after high school. But then it takes 6 years or something. The net long duration is still basically the same due to all the additional specialized knowledge needed for professional degrees.
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
It's probably a combination of all your questions. Simpler fee structure that takes a standardized part of young adulthood that provides a standardized amount of expertise, leading to "an undergraduate degree" denoting a certain amount of breadth and depth. It's about what a typical college student can learn in four years. Some fields like law and medicine require more time to get practically useful, like 7ish years for law, which we can break down into units of 4 + 3, an undergraduate degree and a law doctorate (JD). Or medicine, which takes like 15 years, and is split into 4 + 4 + 3-5 + 1-4, an undergrad degree, a medical doctorate (MD), a residency, and a fellowship. Maybe splitting it into these points helps standardize those and provide convenient points where paths split.
joshvm 6y ago
Physicist's perspective. Logically an undergraduate degree is 3 years: the first year is catch up and baseline, everyone gets to the same standard. The second year is actually learning the bulk of the core material. The third year is specialisation and a dissertation project. This also allows for people to fail and resit years as major milestones. Many technical courses overlap. Mathematicians in particular are generally allowed to do anything. I think in the US it's even greater with the minor/major system, so courses like calculus/linear algebra are enormous because everyone from engineering to chemistry might sit in. The majority of undergraduate degrees in the UK are 3 years, 4 if you do a Masters on top. You could probably do the material faster; probably 2 years? But... Physics had one of the highest course loads of all the degrees, 25 hours a week in second year. That's just lecture time, you're expected to do that time again outside. We had almost no free time in the first year due to the amount of compulsory coursework (the crap stuff which requires an expensive 99th edition textbook with a code in it). In later years there was less compulsory homework so less pressure, but then you struggle if you skip it. Exams.. well they had to schedule four years' worth of exams with fairly little overlap, plus time in the summer term for extra modules that wouldn't fit in the second semester. So that takes a couple of months. I guess if you had the capacity you could also optimise that into a big two week block for all students, but that would be challenging. We had 10 week terms/semesters (Oxbridge have 8 officially, but really it's 10) and the rest is effectively vacation. In my day (hah), internships weren't really a big thing. I did a research placement at my university and a few people got industry jobs, but not many. Most of us just enjoyed a month of vacation over Christmas, we revised over Easter and we took the summer off. It wasn't like CS today when people try and get a different FAANG job every summer. The dissertation was budgeted at I think 2 days a week for two semsesters (though you were expected to work more than that). If you cut down holidays then, you could probably squeeze the program into 2 years. That would be an unpleasant experience. I believe in some countries like Austria, you can get a degree by sitting the requisite courses on your own schedule.

mettamage 6y ago

I think it shouldn't. It's simply used as a heuristic or a comparison against actual degrees. If you know what you want to build and can optimize a curriculum towards it, then go for it. For people that just want "fundamental knowledge" in a field. Knowing that they spend about 5% of their life on it, is probably a way of feeling that they have spent enough time on it.

unishark 6y ago

Mainly cultural reasons I'd say. In some countries you jump right into a professional program like medicine right after high school. But then it takes 6 years or something. The net long duration is still basically the same due to all the additional specialized knowledge needed for professional degrees.

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

It's probably a combination of all your questions. Simpler fee structure that takes a standardized part of young adulthood that provides a standardized amount of expertise, leading to "an undergraduate degree" denoting a certain amount of breadth and depth. It's about what a typical college student can learn in four years. Some fields like law and medicine require more time to get practically useful, like 7ish years for law, which we can break down into units of 4 + 3, an undergraduate degree and a law doctorate (JD). Or medicine, which takes like 15 years, and is split into 4 + 4 + 3-5 + 1-4, an undergrad degree, a medical doctorate (MD), a residency, and a fellowship. Maybe splitting it into these points helps standardize those and provide convenient points where paths split.

joshvm 6y ago

Physicist's perspective. Logically an undergraduate degree is 3 years: the first year is catch up and baseline, everyone gets to the same standard. The second year is actually learning the bulk of the core material. The third year is specialisation and a dissertation project. This also allows for people to fail and resit years as major milestones. Many technical courses overlap. Mathematicians in particular are generally allowed to do anything. I think in the US it's even greater with the minor/major system, so courses like calculus/linear algebra are enormous because everyone from engineering to chemistry might sit in. The majority of undergraduate degrees in the UK are 3 years, 4 if you do a Masters on top. You could probably do the material faster; probably 2 years? But... Physics had one of the highest course loads of all the degrees, 25 hours a week in second year. That's just lecture time, you're expected to do that time again outside. We had almost no free time in the first year due to the amount of compulsory coursework (the crap stuff which requires an expensive 99th edition textbook with a code in it). In later years there was less compulsory homework so less pressure, but then you struggle if you skip it. Exams.. well they had to schedule four years' worth of exams with fairly little overlap, plus time in the summer term for extra modules that wouldn't fit in the second semester. So that takes a couple of months. I guess if you had the capacity you could also optimise that into a big two week block for all students, but that would be challenging. We had 10 week terms/semesters (Oxbridge have 8 officially, but really it's 10) and the rest is effectively vacation. In my day (hah), internships weren't really a big thing. I did a research placement at my university and a few people got industry jobs, but not many. Most of us just enjoyed a month of vacation over Christmas, we revised over Easter and we took the summer off. It wasn't like CS today when people try and get a different FAANG job every summer. The dissertation was budgeted at I think 2 days a week for two semsesters (though you were expected to work more than that). If you cut down holidays then, you could probably squeeze the program into 2 years. That would be an unpleasant experience. I believe in some countries like Austria, you can get a degree by sitting the requisite courses on your own schedule.