7 ms·

Media literacy and criticism classes in middle school?

by dvtrn 6y ago

gonzo41 6y ago
This worked in the scandi countries but i feel like in the places where Fox news exists it'll be hard to get on the curriculum.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  That strikes me as all the more reason to shoot for it.
  - thebouv 6y ago
    You're expecting a lot out of a country still trying to get Creationism taught in schools as an alternative scientific theory.
    - dvtrn 6y ago
      Yes I am. Having high expectations fits within my personal framework of citizenry. It’s fine if yours doesn’t, plurality is perfectly fine. The poster asked what could be done. I’m at least trying to answer the question. Do you have solutions? Share them! Let’s discuss.
mcculley 6y ago
I have been wondering how one would teach enough evolutionary psychology and neuroscience to children to make them less susceptible to memetic engineering. Now that we have gone from human marketers to automated systems working to influence purchases and votes, traditional media criticism seems insufficient.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  That’s an interesting question, though I suppose my response would be media literacy and criticism doesn’t have to necessarily imply traditional media in a singular breadth. In suggesting media literacy it was encompassing a spectrum. Still: good question!
  - mcculley 6y ago
    I'm definitely not suggesting that "media criticism" is the wrong term. Just that people need a lot more background to understand what "media" actually is.
    - dvtrn 6y ago
      Maybe an approach to this could follow the model of algebra and calculus? Students who take and show competency in pre-algebra qualify to move on to higher level maths building foundational knowledge for the more complex systems. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be 1:1 in the model and structure of classes, but that’s my thinking. Media literacy shouldn’t be a one semester course, maybe not even a one year course, but instead a component of a radically different educational framework that informs our young students how to critique, analyze and reason their way through the digital frontier. By no means would this kind of shift in education be easy, but in my mind ease is as much a threat to progress than hardship in some cases.
nerdkid93 6y ago
1,000 times yes! In elementary and middle school, I had weekly learning from our school librarian on seeking the truth through a consensus of multiple sources. She taught us how to properly use Wikipedia as a source for finding other sources. Crash Course (the YouTube channel) published a short series last year on Navigating Digital Information (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtN07XYqqWSKpPrtNDiCHTzU https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtN07XYqqWSK...). I really appreciated its pointers for how to deal with social media.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  Ah thank you for the recommendation! Big fan of Crash Course and really big fan of PBS Digital Studios in general.
ascagnel_ 6y ago
I'd agree, with one caveat: there have been plenty of cases where groups push political or other controversial causes via the schools systems (see: the "teach the controversy" and "intelligent design" cases of trying to classify a deistic creation story as backed by science). I can easily see a world where media literacy classes are hijacked to teach the opposite of what ideally should be taught, in order to serve the needs of a few politicians rather than society as a whole.
cryoshon 6y ago
critical thinking classes from kindergarten through the end of college. i have developed a loose curriculum for the latter half of that pipeline, but getting the education uniformly distributed throughout the public mind market is the hard part.
- anthonypasq 6y ago
  Im sorry, but what does a critical thinking class even mean? If you aren't being taught critical thinking already in English, History, and Math then what are you being taught? Isn't that the entire point of those classes?
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    As I said in another comment I fear the thread I’ve started here may be suffering from some creep. “Media literacy” as a topic definitely exercises the critical thinking muscles of the brain as a specific and applied school subject, but if the discussion people would rather have is the vague call to “teach kids critical thinking” and left at that, then I gotta go because that’s a conversation that is far less precise and will get really weird really fast.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    I'm not who you were replying to but I think what people typically mean is instead of just being told X is true you help people come to the conclusion that X is true. One of the best way to do that is to understand both sides of an issue and come to the conclusion that one side is correct. Not only does it cause people to understand why they believe something but it causes them to understand why people on the opposite side of this topic believes what they do. Many people are guilty of not actually understanding why people believe what they do. They will read arguments by people on their side but won't read the best arguments made by the opposite side. They will instead read the arguments by either people who make crappy arguments or by people on their own side explaining the opposition's view. This typically results in awful, often strawmen arguments for the opponent's views. If teachers could set up debates between students on topics I think it would be good. Ideally, the student should disagree with the side they are supposed to defend, though isn't always possible. This will force them to look up the views held by the other side. The teacher should understand the best arguments on both sides and should step in when arguments are being made incorrectly or when a student misses a good response. This of course would often times not work well because teachers don't understand their opponent's views so I am not sure how to actually handle this. You could possibly have a teacher with a different view help moderate the debate, but there is a disproportionate amount of teachers who are liberal (I've seen some studies that put it at over 80%) so it would not always be practical. This doesn't always work on every topic like math, but it could be helpful in both English (for meaning behind books, poems, etc) and various history topics. I am sure there are additional ways to help students learn critical thinking but this could be a good way if teachers are actually able to present both sides in a fair way.
snowwrestler 6y ago
Absolutely. It's always surprising to me to see tech folks disparage humanities studies, then seem flabbergasted at how to fight problems like disinformation/misinformation. IMO, studying language, literature, and criticism are critical skills for operating in a culture that is flooded with information. In terms of what we can do right now... I've been following Mike Caulfield on Twitter (@holden) and he is doing some interesting work on developing mental tools that school kids can use to evaluate the information that comes to them in social feeds. https://twitter.com/holden https://twitter.com/holden
bobbytherobot 6y ago
Sure, I'm all for teaching it. It would still face the same issues as other education topics. Use science as an example. It is taught in schools. And yet, we still have a strong anti-science culture in the U.S.
staycoolboy 6y ago
I used to think this was the answer. I now think the problem with this is a lack of standards. It is documented that textbook manufacturers publish different history and science texts based on the region of the country regarding the civil war or evolution. Not to be a nihilist, but what makes you think underfunded schools that struggle to teach basic reading will teach media literacy and criticism with any success? and will be supported by publishers that feel the same way? I also think critical thinking is VERY hard. Harder than people imagine. It is hard to teach, hard to deploy, hard to practice. I'm not sure even 20% of the population could muster the brain power required to sift through today's onslaught of zone-flooding garbage.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  I now think the problem with this is a lack of standards. That's fair, it's certainly one of many hurdles that this sort of a solution would have to face. Not to be a nihilist, but what makes you think underfunded schools that struggle to teach basic reading will teach media literacy and criticism with any success? and will be supported by publishers that feel the same way? Well I'd probably answer that by starting out with an inquiry on how nihilism is a factor in what is a completely valid question about implementation? A school's ability to fund this kind of program from textbooks to technology to training staff and instructors has to be considered, this type of educational program doesn't happen in vacuum. So I'd say you're right to ask questions about the disparity in school funding and how it would affect a media literacy curriculum-even if I'm not sure it's particularly accurate to describe such questions as "nihilist", they're completely necessary. But by no means am I intending to make any sort of value judgement about how successful this school or that school will be by merely suggesting taking a stab at introducing media literacy into public schooling. To the questions of publishers, excellent question again. Maybe there are some models already out there worth exploring and iterating upon to maximize the value across the various school systems and school models (public, montessori, et al), a few people have commented that there are comparable programs where they live, I'd be curious to see if there are systems worth replicating in this thought experiment. I think you raise excellent points here, all things said.
  - 6y ago
nitwit005 6y ago
I took a critical thinking class in university, which covered deceptive messaging from advertisements fairly heavily. I'd like to think they all came out of that class no longer able to be fooled by this sort of thing, but I know it isn't the case. It's easy to get people to question advertising, because they aren't emotionally invested. Once you stray into religion and politics, people often stop caring that they're hearing plainly untrue, or even self-contradictory, ideas.

Media literacy and criticism classes in middle school?

by dvtrn 6y ago

Media literacy and criticism classes in middle school?

This worked in the scandi countries but i feel like in the places where Fox news exists it'll be hard to get on the curriculum.

dvtrn 6y ago
That strikes me as all the more reason to shoot for it.
- thebouv 6y ago
  You're expecting a lot out of a country still trying to get Creationism taught in schools as an alternative scientific theory.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    Yes I am. Having high expectations fits within my personal framework of citizenry. It’s fine if yours doesn’t, plurality is perfectly fine. The poster asked what could be done. I’m at least trying to answer the question. Do you have solutions? Share them! Let’s discuss.

mcculley 6y ago

I have been wondering how one would teach enough evolutionary psychology and neuroscience to children to make them less susceptible to memetic engineering. Now that we have gone from human marketers to automated systems working to influence purchases and votes, traditional media criticism seems insufficient.

dvtrn 6y ago
That’s an interesting question, though I suppose my response would be media literacy and criticism doesn’t have to necessarily imply traditional media in a singular breadth. In suggesting media literacy it was encompassing a spectrum. Still: good question!
- mcculley 6y ago
  I'm definitely not suggesting that "media criticism" is the wrong term. Just that people need a lot more background to understand what "media" actually is.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    Maybe an approach to this could follow the model of algebra and calculus? Students who take and show competency in pre-algebra qualify to move on to higher level maths building foundational knowledge for the more complex systems. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be 1:1 in the model and structure of classes, but that’s my thinking. Media literacy shouldn’t be a one semester course, maybe not even a one year course, but instead a component of a radically different educational framework that informs our young students how to critique, analyze and reason their way through the digital frontier. By no means would this kind of shift in education be easy, but in my mind ease is as much a threat to progress than hardship in some cases.

nerdkid93 6y ago

1,000 times yes! In elementary and middle school, I had weekly learning from our school librarian on seeking the truth through a consensus of multiple sources. She taught us how to properly use Wikipedia as a source for finding other sources. Crash Course (the YouTube channel) published a short series last year on Navigating Digital Information (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtN07XYqqWSKpPrtNDiCHTzU https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtN07XYqqWSK...). I really appreciated its pointers for how to deal with social media.

dvtrn 6y ago
Ah thank you for the recommendation! Big fan of Crash Course and really big fan of PBS Digital Studios in general.

ascagnel_ 6y ago

I'd agree, with one caveat: there have been plenty of cases where groups push political or other controversial causes via the schools systems (see: the "teach the controversy" and "intelligent design" cases of trying to classify a deistic creation story as backed by science). I can easily see a world where media literacy classes are hijacked to teach the opposite of what ideally should be taught, in order to serve the needs of a few politicians rather than society as a whole.

cryoshon 6y ago

critical thinking classes from kindergarten through the end of college. i have developed a loose curriculum for the latter half of that pipeline, but getting the education uniformly distributed throughout the public mind market is the hard part.

anthonypasq 6y ago
Im sorry, but what does a critical thinking class even mean? If you aren't being taught critical thinking already in English, History, and Math then what are you being taught? Isn't that the entire point of those classes?
- dvtrn 6y ago
  As I said in another comment I fear the thread I’ve started here may be suffering from some creep. “Media literacy” as a topic definitely exercises the critical thinking muscles of the brain as a specific and applied school subject, but if the discussion people would rather have is the vague call to “teach kids critical thinking” and left at that, then I gotta go because that’s a conversation that is far less precise and will get really weird really fast.
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  I'm not who you were replying to but I think what people typically mean is instead of just being told X is true you help people come to the conclusion that X is true. One of the best way to do that is to understand both sides of an issue and come to the conclusion that one side is correct. Not only does it cause people to understand why they believe something but it causes them to understand why people on the opposite side of this topic believes what they do. Many people are guilty of not actually understanding why people believe what they do. They will read arguments by people on their side but won't read the best arguments made by the opposite side. They will instead read the arguments by either people who make crappy arguments or by people on their own side explaining the opposition's view. This typically results in awful, often strawmen arguments for the opponent's views. If teachers could set up debates between students on topics I think it would be good. Ideally, the student should disagree with the side they are supposed to defend, though isn't always possible. This will force them to look up the views held by the other side. The teacher should understand the best arguments on both sides and should step in when arguments are being made incorrectly or when a student misses a good response. This of course would often times not work well because teachers don't understand their opponent's views so I am not sure how to actually handle this. You could possibly have a teacher with a different view help moderate the debate, but there is a disproportionate amount of teachers who are liberal (I've seen some studies that put it at over 80%) so it would not always be practical. This doesn't always work on every topic like math, but it could be helpful in both English (for meaning behind books, poems, etc) and various history topics. I am sure there are additional ways to help students learn critical thinking but this could be a good way if teachers are actually able to present both sides in a fair way.

snowwrestler 6y ago

Absolutely. It's always surprising to me to see tech folks disparage humanities studies, then seem flabbergasted at how to fight problems like disinformation/misinformation. IMO, studying language, literature, and criticism are critical skills for operating in a culture that is flooded with information. In terms of what we can do right now... I've been following Mike Caulfield on Twitter (@holden) and he is doing some interesting work on developing mental tools that school kids can use to evaluate the information that comes to them in social feeds. https://twitter.com/holden https://twitter.com/holden

bobbytherobot 6y ago

Sure, I'm all for teaching it. It would still face the same issues as other education topics. Use science as an example. It is taught in schools. And yet, we still have a strong anti-science culture in the U.S.

staycoolboy 6y ago

I used to think this was the answer. I now think the problem with this is a lack of standards. It is documented that textbook manufacturers publish different history and science texts based on the region of the country regarding the civil war or evolution. Not to be a nihilist, but what makes you think underfunded schools that struggle to teach basic reading will teach media literacy and criticism with any success? and will be supported by publishers that feel the same way? I also think critical thinking is VERY hard. Harder than people imagine. It is hard to teach, hard to deploy, hard to practice. I'm not sure even 20% of the population could muster the brain power required to sift through today's onslaught of zone-flooding garbage.

dvtrn 6y ago
I now think the problem with this is a lack of standards. That's fair, it's certainly one of many hurdles that this sort of a solution would have to face. Not to be a nihilist, but what makes you think underfunded schools that struggle to teach basic reading will teach media literacy and criticism with any success? and will be supported by publishers that feel the same way? Well I'd probably answer that by starting out with an inquiry on how nihilism is a factor in what is a completely valid question about implementation? A school's ability to fund this kind of program from textbooks to technology to training staff and instructors has to be considered, this type of educational program doesn't happen in vacuum. So I'd say you're right to ask questions about the disparity in school funding and how it would affect a media literacy curriculum-even if I'm not sure it's particularly accurate to describe such questions as "nihilist", they're completely necessary. But by no means am I intending to make any sort of value judgement about how successful this school or that school will be by merely suggesting taking a stab at introducing media literacy into public schooling. To the questions of publishers, excellent question again. Maybe there are some models already out there worth exploring and iterating upon to maximize the value across the various school systems and school models (public, montessori, et al), a few people have commented that there are comparable programs where they live, I'd be curious to see if there are systems worth replicating in this thought experiment. I think you raise excellent points here, all things said.
- 6y ago

nitwit005 6y ago

I took a critical thinking class in university, which covered deceptive messaging from advertisements fairly heavily. I'd like to think they all came out of that class no longer able to be fooled by this sort of thing, but I know it isn't the case. It's easy to get people to question advertising, because they aren't emotionally invested. Once you stray into religion and politics, people often stop caring that they're hearing plainly untrue, or even self-contradictory, ideas.