3 ms·

latest trends - not an issue for me. Nurturing my network though. I might be too arrogant or proud but I think I have worked too hard to be dependent on my net

latest trends - not an issue for me. Nurturing my network though. I might be too arrogant or proud but I think I have worked too hard to be dependent on my network for a job. I should be able to move to a nice job without any network push.

scarface74 6y ago
How’s that working out for you? I can honestly say that I have never in over 25 years gotten a job based on blindly submitting my resume. My first paid development gig in 1990 was based on someone at another college reaching out to me based on some Mac shareware they found on the ftp Info Mac archives (yeah I’m that old). My first job was based on an internship I had the year before from bugging the career center at college. Every subsequent job has been based on either former coworkers recommendations or working with local external recruiters.
- nonines 6y ago
  Well, I'm so fed up with feeling a failure after all that effort that I'm kicking my past young self in the arse for not joining the merchant-navy when I could (too old for that now too). So - no it's not going overly well(1). Yet I have had 5 jobs up to now in IT and I got them all without any network push so that probably has given me a warped view of how things actually work. (1) I have a job atm. It's mostly the prospects that fear me out.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  So true. I've been trying to drive this home to my wife, who has been out of the job market for almost 10 years. She's getting discouraged because she is getting no responses to her applications. Her resume is strong (almost 10 years marketing/design at Apple, went back to school got highest GPA possible in anthropology, now is taking UX design/research courses, acing them), but it's just not going to get looked at without mining her networks. But it's really hard to go knocking on the door of people you haven't worked with or talked to in almost a decade. It's easy to assume they won't be interested in connecting. Or if one doesn't respond, assuming the rest will. Like you I've never had a job that didn't come from some kind of personal connection. It's really the key.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    I’ve met all three of my former managers for lunch at least once since I left the company where I worked for them just to keep the network warm. I also try to meet former coworkers for lunch when I can. One of the questions I ask them when I turn in my letter of resignation is what do they need me to do so if I need to call them for a reference in two or three years, they will give me a good referral. I don’t think I would have any problems getting hired by but one of my former managers. I’ve also met local recruiter for lunch and always respond to non shady recruiters. But as far as your wife, I would hope that most of her female former coworkers would be able to relate to the fact that some mothers take a break in their career to be caretakers and that most of her former male coworkers wouldn’t be knuckle draggers and understand too.
- theonething 6y ago
  Wow, my experience is the exact opposite. All of my software engineering jobs have been through cold resume submission. And I've had quite a few jobs.
Sodman 6y ago
I had the exact same attitude as you. I got laid off at the start of covid from a travel-tech startup. At first my mentality was "I'm a really good engineer with a solid resume, I don't need my network or even need to use a recruiter". I cold-applied to a number of jobs and didn't even receive a response from most. Did they pause hiring because of covid? Was my resume just not good enough? After about 2-3 weeks of this I finally folded and starting talking to recruiters. I had 3 final round interviews at companies who I'd love to work for within 2 weeks, ultimately resulting in my current job. That's just using recruiters' "networks". If you have someone in your own network that thinks highly enough of you, the entire interview process can sometimes end up being as quick and painless as grabbing a coffee. My advice is to try and leave your pride at the door and just think of it as playing the game. There's no reason to handicap yourself when most people you're competing with will be playing at full strength - many of whom I'm sure are more arrogant than you ;)
- ghaff 6y ago
  >If you have someone in your own network that thinks highly enough of you, the entire interview process can sometimes end up being as quick and painless as grabbing a coffee. I was laid off immediately after 9/11 and I had lunch with an acquaintance of mine; I was a client at a prior job. This led to a job offer in about a month. (It was a very small firm and it just took them a while to decide if they wanted to bring someone on full-time.) In the meantime I had some other get-togethers. Sent a bunch of resumes around. Etc. Crickets. And my current job came from basically sending an email to someone senior I knew at the #1 company on my short list.
  - noirbot 6y ago
    As a younger developer on the other said of this, I have plenty of senior/older engineers that I would love to work for again, but I also feel a bit awkward reaching out to them to ask if they want to work with me again. It's hard to know if they're looking for work - some have been with my previous employers for 10+ years, and I assume they're being paid well and allowed to do what they want for the most part. It feels arrogant of me to reach out to them and ask them to quit to come help me. To that end, obviously judge this on your own situation, but if anything,junior engineers that used to work under/around you are probably pretty star-struck with you. I'd provide a pretty glowing referral to almost every Principal engineer I've ever worked with if they asked me.
ghaff 6y ago
> should be able to move to a nice job without any network push Then you're probably playing much more of a numbers game. Short of having extraordinary credentials--in which case you probably have a pretty good network anyway. Everyone's different of course but, after my first job out of grad school--which I stayed in long enough that I was pretty senior by the time I was ready to move on--every job I've had came directly through people I knew. I probably never actually needed a resume other than for pro forma reasons. (I've admittedly also somewhat shifted careers a couple of times--and had one job description basically written for me--so my experience may not translate well to hiring developers for a specific set of skills.)

scarface74 6y ago

How’s that working out for you? I can honestly say that I have never in over 25 years gotten a job based on blindly submitting my resume. My first paid development gig in 1990 was based on someone at another college reaching out to me based on some Mac shareware they found on the ftp Info Mac archives (yeah I’m that old). My first job was based on an internship I had the year before from bugging the career center at college. Every subsequent job has been based on either former coworkers recommendations or working with local external recruiters.

nonines 6y ago
Well, I'm so fed up with feeling a failure after all that effort that I'm kicking my past young self in the arse for not joining the merchant-navy when I could (too old for that now too). So - no it's not going overly well(1). Yet I have had 5 jobs up to now in IT and I got them all without any network push so that probably has given me a warped view of how things actually work. (1) I have a job atm. It's mostly the prospects that fear me out.
cmrdporcupine 6y ago
So true. I've been trying to drive this home to my wife, who has been out of the job market for almost 10 years. She's getting discouraged because she is getting no responses to her applications. Her resume is strong (almost 10 years marketing/design at Apple, went back to school got highest GPA possible in anthropology, now is taking UX design/research courses, acing them), but it's just not going to get looked at without mining her networks. But it's really hard to go knocking on the door of people you haven't worked with or talked to in almost a decade. It's easy to assume they won't be interested in connecting. Or if one doesn't respond, assuming the rest will. Like you I've never had a job that didn't come from some kind of personal connection. It's really the key.
- scarface74 6y ago
  I’ve met all three of my former managers for lunch at least once since I left the company where I worked for them just to keep the network warm. I also try to meet former coworkers for lunch when I can. One of the questions I ask them when I turn in my letter of resignation is what do they need me to do so if I need to call them for a reference in two or three years, they will give me a good referral. I don’t think I would have any problems getting hired by but one of my former managers. I’ve also met local recruiter for lunch and always respond to non shady recruiters. But as far as your wife, I would hope that most of her female former coworkers would be able to relate to the fact that some mothers take a break in their career to be caretakers and that most of her former male coworkers wouldn’t be knuckle draggers and understand too.
theonething 6y ago
Wow, my experience is the exact opposite. All of my software engineering jobs have been through cold resume submission. And I've had quite a few jobs.

Sodman 6y ago

I had the exact same attitude as you. I got laid off at the start of covid from a travel-tech startup. At first my mentality was "I'm a really good engineer with a solid resume, I don't need my network or even need to use a recruiter". I cold-applied to a number of jobs and didn't even receive a response from most. Did they pause hiring because of covid? Was my resume just not good enough? After about 2-3 weeks of this I finally folded and starting talking to recruiters. I had 3 final round interviews at companies who I'd love to work for within 2 weeks, ultimately resulting in my current job. That's just using recruiters' "networks". If you have someone in your own network that thinks highly enough of you, the entire interview process can sometimes end up being as quick and painless as grabbing a coffee. My advice is to try and leave your pride at the door and just think of it as playing the game. There's no reason to handicap yourself when most people you're competing with will be playing at full strength - many of whom I'm sure are more arrogant than you ;)

ghaff 6y ago
>If you have someone in your own network that thinks highly enough of you, the entire interview process can sometimes end up being as quick and painless as grabbing a coffee. I was laid off immediately after 9/11 and I had lunch with an acquaintance of mine; I was a client at a prior job. This led to a job offer in about a month. (It was a very small firm and it just took them a while to decide if they wanted to bring someone on full-time.) In the meantime I had some other get-togethers. Sent a bunch of resumes around. Etc. Crickets. And my current job came from basically sending an email to someone senior I knew at the #1 company on my short list.
- noirbot 6y ago
  As a younger developer on the other said of this, I have plenty of senior/older engineers that I would love to work for again, but I also feel a bit awkward reaching out to them to ask if they want to work with me again. It's hard to know if they're looking for work - some have been with my previous employers for 10+ years, and I assume they're being paid well and allowed to do what they want for the most part. It feels arrogant of me to reach out to them and ask them to quit to come help me. To that end, obviously judge this on your own situation, but if anything,junior engineers that used to work under/around you are probably pretty star-struck with you. I'd provide a pretty glowing referral to almost every Principal engineer I've ever worked with if they asked me.

ghaff 6y ago

> should be able to move to a nice job without any network push Then you're probably playing much more of a numbers game. Short of having extraordinary credentials--in which case you probably have a pretty good network anyway. Everyone's different of course but, after my first job out of grad school--which I stayed in long enough that I was pretty senior by the time I was ready to move on--every job I've had came directly through people I knew. I probably never actually needed a resume other than for pro forma reasons. (I've admittedly also somewhat shifted careers a couple of times--and had one job description basically written for me--so my experience may not translate well to hiring developers for a specific set of skills.)