4 ms·

That's not "succeding" though. I like to give Trump as an example: everyone loves to blast him for being an idiot. Is he a good president? No. Is he good at th

That's not "succeding" though. I like to give Trump as an example: everyone loves to blast him for being an idiot. Is he a good president? No. Is he good at the game, but most people totally miss what his game is? I claim, yes. It's unfortunate that he managed to play the US election system for his own purposes, but that doesn't mean he's just incompetent at everything. E.g. he's a rather good populist - that may not be a quality you like, but at that particular game he's not at all bad.

mewpmewp2 6y ago
Which leads to the following: How do you measure if someone is a good president? What measurements do you use to claim Trump is not a good president? Surely it can't be approval ratings since you can't expect public to understand nuances behind the decisions and what the president actually has to be doing? It can't be just GDP because GDP might have been going up anyway? It can't be what the president is saying in public and how many of those facts are wrong since this doesn't mean what actual decisions the president is making.
- thdrdt 6y ago
  Aren't there universal measurements for leaders/counties? For example the Bible has a lot of wisdom like: 'If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.' This was already written some 2000 years ago and has been proven true over time. So I would argue you could measure the amount of unity a leader tries to create.
  - bergstromm466 6y ago
    > So I would argue you could measure the amount of unity a leader tries to create. That’s a nice one. Yet do you think then Hitler might be a good leader? (not a joke). He united the white German population in a time of great economic disarray - in both Germany and Europe. Maybe we should measure unity and cooperation with other countries? Global solidarity
    - thdrdt 6y ago
      You have got a good point but I doubt it is true because a lot of Germans were against Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism
    - heavenlyblue 6y ago
      > He united the white German population in a time of great economic disarray Rather, he united the country because it was in an economic disarray :)
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  Some combination of GINI, average life expectancy, number of bankruptcies, business closures, unemployment, changes in all-cause mortality, median household debt, disposable income, educational attainment, and so on. If you look at a basket of well-being measures as opposed to raw GDP it's hard to argue that Trump has done a good job. Of course Covid has had a big effect. But there were many policy options for handling that, and Trump - and his far-right equivalents in other countries - reliably picked some of the least effective ones.
  - splintercell 6y ago
    Never met a person on the right who considered GINI index as a good measure. Regarding bankruptcies, unemployment, household debt Etc, Obama's first term would show really low score on these things, presuming that's all he had, almost none of it was caused by the actions taken by him during his presidency.
  - iateanapple 6y ago
    > If you look at a basket of well-being measures as opposed to raw GDP it's hard to argue It is too soon to argue any of those measures. You can’t take a single moment in time in the middle of a crisis to judge.
- michaelt 6y ago
  > What measurements do you use to claim Trump is not a good president? Number of his supporters arguing that objectively there's no such thing as a good president :-p
  - iateanapple 6y ago
    > Number of his supporters arguing that objectively there's no such thing as a good president :-p That’s probably a bad metric because his supporters love him. It’s the swing voters making those kinds of comments because they want to vote for him but he’s done some dodgy things.

mewpmewp2 6y ago

Which leads to the following: How do you measure if someone is a good president? What measurements do you use to claim Trump is not a good president? Surely it can't be approval ratings since you can't expect public to understand nuances behind the decisions and what the president actually has to be doing? It can't be just GDP because GDP might have been going up anyway? It can't be what the president is saying in public and how many of those facts are wrong since this doesn't mean what actual decisions the president is making.

thdrdt 6y ago
Aren't there universal measurements for leaders/counties? For example the Bible has a lot of wisdom like: 'If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.' This was already written some 2000 years ago and has been proven true over time. So I would argue you could measure the amount of unity a leader tries to create.
- bergstromm466 6y ago
  > So I would argue you could measure the amount of unity a leader tries to create. That’s a nice one. Yet do you think then Hitler might be a good leader? (not a joke). He united the white German population in a time of great economic disarray - in both Germany and Europe. Maybe we should measure unity and cooperation with other countries? Global solidarity
  - thdrdt 6y ago
    You have got a good point but I doubt it is true because a lot of Germans were against Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    > He united the white German population in a time of great economic disarray Rather, he united the country because it was in an economic disarray :)
TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
Some combination of GINI, average life expectancy, number of bankruptcies, business closures, unemployment, changes in all-cause mortality, median household debt, disposable income, educational attainment, and so on. If you look at a basket of well-being measures as opposed to raw GDP it's hard to argue that Trump has done a good job. Of course Covid has had a big effect. But there were many policy options for handling that, and Trump - and his far-right equivalents in other countries - reliably picked some of the least effective ones.
- splintercell 6y ago
  Never met a person on the right who considered GINI index as a good measure. Regarding bankruptcies, unemployment, household debt Etc, Obama's first term would show really low score on these things, presuming that's all he had, almost none of it was caused by the actions taken by him during his presidency.
- iateanapple 6y ago
  > If you look at a basket of well-being measures as opposed to raw GDP it's hard to argue It is too soon to argue any of those measures. You can’t take a single moment in time in the middle of a crisis to judge.
michaelt 6y ago
> What measurements do you use to claim Trump is not a good president? Number of his supporters arguing that objectively there's no such thing as a good president :-p
- iateanapple 6y ago
  > Number of his supporters arguing that objectively there's no such thing as a good president :-p That’s probably a bad metric because his supporters love him. It’s the swing voters making those kinds of comments because they want to vote for him but he’s done some dodgy things.