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> A young person is building their life, lockdown is preventing them from doing that. I find this comment utterly mind boggling. The US's stay at home orders w

> A young person is building their life, lockdown is preventing them from doing that. I find this comment utterly mind boggling. The US's stay at home orders were issued when? Mid to end of March? That makes it what? About 1 month? Are we supposed to believe that "young people" suddenly get into a tail spin because they have to endure a whole month of not finding a partner, get to know each other, make life plans, and get pregnant?

capsulecorp 6y ago
Shutdown happened mid March, it's been over 2 months.
nmfisher 6y ago
> I find this comment utterly mind boggling. The US's stay at home orders were issued when? Mid to end of March? That makes it what? About 1 month? Are we supposed to believe that "young people" suddenly get into a tail spin because they have to endure a whole month of not finding a partner, get to know each other, make life plans, and get pregnant? No, but millions have lost their jobs due to the shutdown, and it's very conceivable that many would put off children/marriage/partnership because of that.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  I know that the whole "have kids" thing, which we were thinking about, has basically been totally shut down. Nope, this is craziness, time to just survive for the next few years.
  - karatestomp 6y ago
    On the plus side, if you catch a bad case of Covid then a birth this year will probably work out as free because you'll be hitting your out-of-pocket max anyway. Just make sure you time it so the birth doesn't hit on the next year or they'll get you for double. (yes, for international folks, people in the US who've thought it through really do base their family planning in large part on when their annual insurance limits reset, because the difference in costs can be thousands of dollars even with pretty good insurance, if you accidentally land most of the prenatal care on one year and the birth itself on the next)
    - subhobroto 6y ago
      > out-of-pocket max > yes, for international folks, people in the US That's not the end of it. There's an "in network" deductible and "out of network" (OON) deductible. Depending on the health plan you have and the state you live in, the hospitals can also "balance bill" if they are OON. When giving birth, parents in the U.S. is very much expected to ask everyone involved, I repeat, everyone involved that they are not OON. It's insane.
  - avgDev 6y ago
    We had a baby in May, it was a bit uncomfortable being in the hospital but it everyone is healthy. I'm in Illinois and I am grateful our governor ordered stay at home. We were worried about over crowding at hospitals. But yeah....I don't think anyone would willingly have a baby right now.
    - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
      Congratulations!
username90 6y ago
It doesn't just put family building on ice, it puts almost everything on ice. Everyone who hasn't already built a life they are reasonable happy with will be feeling horrible right now, and most young people are in that stage. I'm already above that age so Corona doesn't affect me much, but I know that if I were younger I'd hate it.
- tayo42 6y ago
  All of that plus the unknown end of it. Sure its been 2 or 3 months but its not like its ending tomorrow. Any one who wanted to make a major life change in the next two years is probably rethinking it.
  - ck425 6y ago
    This is an issue I've had. I've been reconsidering and exploring career options over the last year. Atm I can't act on anything but I've all the time in the world to dwell on it. It's incredible frustrating and causing me a lot of anxiety. And I'm one of the lucky ones with a secure job that's not terrible. I can't imagine how rough it is for others.
- avbanks 6y ago
  This is a very eloquent way of describing my exact feelings toward this situation.
- closeparen 6y ago
  Well said. And decisions are going to be made almost exclusively by people who do already have homes and families they are happy with.
argonaut 6y ago
I find your comment to be even more mind boggling - I'm not exaggerating. The shutdown has been short but it has completely wrecked with education and entry-level jobs, which define a young person's development. 1) Anyone in school has had their education upended. Schools will be closed March through June. That is 3 months of a child or teen's educational/social/psychological development. I'm not even talking about college (which you can argue can muddle along with distance education), or summer activities (which you can argue are optional), but those have been impacted too. 2) For those in college, I would guess the majority have lost internships. Many new grads have lost their jobs. Most new grads probably didn't even get a job by March, and now they likely won't get a job until the end of the year or next year. For the majority of people who don't go to college, many work in service jobs and have been wiped out.
- malandrew 6y ago
  > it has completely wrecked with education and entry-level jobs Humans have recovered and prospered from far more dire circumstances, including many immigrants to the US and Europe.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    You're not wrong, but I suspect that there's a widespread Whig view of history that's been present in the Western world since the end of WWII. You think of the '90s and the prosperity there, the end of major international rivalries, the birth of the Information Age, and imagine that time will just go on forever. Each generation is supposed to live better lives than the previous generation, right? We have the technology! And yet the past couple of decades showed that no, income inequality and rising costs of living and the impossibility of buying housing in many markets have basically depressed American (and many other Western) youth, sort of like what's been happening in Japan all this time. The hardscrabble Ellis Island immigrants were fleeing from clearly traumatic problems. Famine, war, disease. What afflicts modern day youth? High prices, bad numbers. It's an abstract foe with no clear solutions. It's not as if they can just move to Australia or New Zealand, another frontier of economic opportunity to start anew.
  - 6y ago
kenneth 6y ago
14-20% unemployment in the matter of months is normal, then?
viklove 6y ago
My SO was supposed to start med school this fall, and now that's all up in the air. Try to empathize -- yes, the lockdown has only been in effect for a few months, but this pandemic is going to continue for at least a year or two. I'm planning on taking the GMAT in prep for business school next year, and even that is questionable at this point. When you're in your mid 20s, delaying 6 months to 1 year of your career trajectory can have massive effects. If you already have your life established, you probably don't have the same concerns.
- to11mtm 6y ago
  Yeah this is going to impact things for a while most likely. When I finished college, the 2008 recession had not happened yet, however there were definitely warning signs in the job market even after I graduated. Many of my friends from college were laid off before or during the downturn, I was stuck in a very dead end job just trying to make ends meet. I wound up not getting a job fully utilizing my degree until I had almost reached 30. Lots of folks in this area were in similar boats; they aren't starting families until their mid or even later 30s because they had stumbling blocks due to the 2008 crisis.
freeone3000 6y ago
It's not that it's been two months, it's that it's been two months and no plan for the future. If I knew, ahead of time, that I'd be able to meet people again in another month? Sure, that's 3 months, that's no problem. It's the indefinite suspension of all activities! It's the suspected lockdown! It's not even the laws - people are scared, if you don't already have a long-term partner you're probably not going to go meet someone new! You can't even make plans for "after", because it's unclear when exactly "after" is. This is a huge roadblock to any sort of planning, much less a romantic relationship.
aianus 6y ago
> Are we supposed to believe that "young people" suddenly get into a tail spin because they have to endure a whole month They've already basically cancelled college in Canada for September through December. All large classes (so all freshman core classes) will be online and it's doubtful dorms will be open. So that's at least 9 months ruined for high school seniors and college students.
closeparen 6y ago
Dating is close contact with people from outside your household. Sometimes several in quick succession. I don't see that becoming safe or legal before full vaccination. The science-fiction timeline for full vaccination is two years. And I hope we in this industry know better than to take the "not physically impossible" timeline on an ambitious technical project as a commitment. It's possible there will be some kind of compromise involving a longer phone/video-only period, earlier exclusivity, and public policy acceptance of having contact with a small number of people from outside the household. At least I can hope. But nevertheless, this is a uniquely awful time in history to be single.
eli_gottlieb 6y ago
>The US's stay at home orders were issued when? Mid to end of March? That makes it what? About 1 month? My state issued the stay-at-home advisory around March 15, and lifted it with precautions May 19. That's two months.

capsulecorp 6y ago

Shutdown happened mid March, it's been over 2 months.

nmfisher 6y ago

> I find this comment utterly mind boggling. The US's stay at home orders were issued when? Mid to end of March? That makes it what? About 1 month? Are we supposed to believe that "young people" suddenly get into a tail spin because they have to endure a whole month of not finding a partner, get to know each other, make life plans, and get pregnant? No, but millions have lost their jobs due to the shutdown, and it's very conceivable that many would put off children/marriage/partnership because of that.

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
I know that the whole "have kids" thing, which we were thinking about, has basically been totally shut down. Nope, this is craziness, time to just survive for the next few years.
- karatestomp 6y ago
  On the plus side, if you catch a bad case of Covid then a birth this year will probably work out as free because you'll be hitting your out-of-pocket max anyway. Just make sure you time it so the birth doesn't hit on the next year or they'll get you for double. (yes, for international folks, people in the US who've thought it through really do base their family planning in large part on when their annual insurance limits reset, because the difference in costs can be thousands of dollars even with pretty good insurance, if you accidentally land most of the prenatal care on one year and the birth itself on the next)
  - subhobroto 6y ago
    > out-of-pocket max > yes, for international folks, people in the US That's not the end of it. There's an "in network" deductible and "out of network" (OON) deductible. Depending on the health plan you have and the state you live in, the hospitals can also "balance bill" if they are OON. When giving birth, parents in the U.S. is very much expected to ask everyone involved, I repeat, everyone involved that they are not OON. It's insane.
- avgDev 6y ago
  We had a baby in May, it was a bit uncomfortable being in the hospital but it everyone is healthy. I'm in Illinois and I am grateful our governor ordered stay at home. We were worried about over crowding at hospitals. But yeah....I don't think anyone would willingly have a baby right now.
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    Congratulations!

username90 6y ago

It doesn't just put family building on ice, it puts almost everything on ice. Everyone who hasn't already built a life they are reasonable happy with will be feeling horrible right now, and most young people are in that stage. I'm already above that age so Corona doesn't affect me much, but I know that if I were younger I'd hate it.

tayo42 6y ago
All of that plus the unknown end of it. Sure its been 2 or 3 months but its not like its ending tomorrow. Any one who wanted to make a major life change in the next two years is probably rethinking it.
- ck425 6y ago
  This is an issue I've had. I've been reconsidering and exploring career options over the last year. Atm I can't act on anything but I've all the time in the world to dwell on it. It's incredible frustrating and causing me a lot of anxiety. And I'm one of the lucky ones with a secure job that's not terrible. I can't imagine how rough it is for others.
avbanks 6y ago
This is a very eloquent way of describing my exact feelings toward this situation.
closeparen 6y ago
Well said. And decisions are going to be made almost exclusively by people who do already have homes and families they are happy with.

argonaut 6y ago

I find your comment to be even more mind boggling - I'm not exaggerating. The shutdown has been short but it has completely wrecked with education and entry-level jobs, which define a young person's development. 1) Anyone in school has had their education upended. Schools will be closed March through June. That is 3 months of a child or teen's educational/social/psychological development. I'm not even talking about college (which you can argue can muddle along with distance education), or summer activities (which you can argue are optional), but those have been impacted too. 2) For those in college, I would guess the majority have lost internships. Many new grads have lost their jobs. Most new grads probably didn't even get a job by March, and now they likely won't get a job until the end of the year or next year. For the majority of people who don't go to college, many work in service jobs and have been wiped out.

malandrew 6y ago
> it has completely wrecked with education and entry-level jobs Humans have recovered and prospered from far more dire circumstances, including many immigrants to the US and Europe.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  You're not wrong, but I suspect that there's a widespread Whig view of history that's been present in the Western world since the end of WWII. You think of the '90s and the prosperity there, the end of major international rivalries, the birth of the Information Age, and imagine that time will just go on forever. Each generation is supposed to live better lives than the previous generation, right? We have the technology! And yet the past couple of decades showed that no, income inequality and rising costs of living and the impossibility of buying housing in many markets have basically depressed American (and many other Western) youth, sort of like what's been happening in Japan all this time. The hardscrabble Ellis Island immigrants were fleeing from clearly traumatic problems. Famine, war, disease. What afflicts modern day youth? High prices, bad numbers. It's an abstract foe with no clear solutions. It's not as if they can just move to Australia or New Zealand, another frontier of economic opportunity to start anew.
- 6y ago

kenneth 6y ago

14-20% unemployment in the matter of months is normal, then?

viklove 6y ago

My SO was supposed to start med school this fall, and now that's all up in the air. Try to empathize -- yes, the lockdown has only been in effect for a few months, but this pandemic is going to continue for at least a year or two. I'm planning on taking the GMAT in prep for business school next year, and even that is questionable at this point. When you're in your mid 20s, delaying 6 months to 1 year of your career trajectory can have massive effects. If you already have your life established, you probably don't have the same concerns.

to11mtm 6y ago
Yeah this is going to impact things for a while most likely. When I finished college, the 2008 recession had not happened yet, however there were definitely warning signs in the job market even after I graduated. Many of my friends from college were laid off before or during the downturn, I was stuck in a very dead end job just trying to make ends meet. I wound up not getting a job fully utilizing my degree until I had almost reached 30. Lots of folks in this area were in similar boats; they aren't starting families until their mid or even later 30s because they had stumbling blocks due to the 2008 crisis.

freeone3000 6y ago

It's not that it's been two months, it's that it's been two months and no plan for the future. If I knew, ahead of time, that I'd be able to meet people again in another month? Sure, that's 3 months, that's no problem. It's the indefinite suspension of all activities! It's the suspected lockdown! It's not even the laws - people are scared, if you don't already have a long-term partner you're probably not going to go meet someone new! You can't even make plans for "after", because it's unclear when exactly "after" is. This is a huge roadblock to any sort of planning, much less a romantic relationship.

aianus 6y ago

> Are we supposed to believe that "young people" suddenly get into a tail spin because they have to endure a whole month They've already basically cancelled college in Canada for September through December. All large classes (so all freshman core classes) will be online and it's doubtful dorms will be open. So that's at least 9 months ruined for high school seniors and college students.

closeparen 6y ago

Dating is close contact with people from outside your household. Sometimes several in quick succession. I don't see that becoming safe or legal before full vaccination. The science-fiction timeline for full vaccination is two years. And I hope we in this industry know better than to take the "not physically impossible" timeline on an ambitious technical project as a commitment. It's possible there will be some kind of compromise involving a longer phone/video-only period, earlier exclusivity, and public policy acceptance of having contact with a small number of people from outside the household. At least I can hope. But nevertheless, this is a uniquely awful time in history to be single.

eli_gottlieb 6y ago

>The US's stay at home orders were issued when? Mid to end of March? That makes it what? About 1 month? My state issued the stay-at-home advisory around March 15, and lifted it with precautions May 19. That's two months.