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> I would almost argue that reading for information (as opposed to aesthetic enjoyment) is a hugely inefficient waste of time if you don't use a SRS system to r

> I would almost argue that reading for information (as opposed to aesthetic enjoyment) is a hugely inefficient waste of time if you don't use a SRS system to retain what you've learned. I've probably read hundreds or thousands of books in my lifetime, but I can really only remember the minute details of the ones I've added to Anki. I use Anki (and the classic version of "SuperMemo") a lot, too. However, I mostly use it for learning languages (vocabulary), or for more complex material in case a test/exam is coming up (to avoid "cramming"). However, I see two problems with such SRS systems, now that I've been using them for over 10 years: 1) I can often not recall the knowledge in real life, simply because I study _both_ the question and answer side of the card - in other words, if I'm asked the question in a rather different way, I might not recall that I know that fact at all. The most extreme example of this was that certain flashcards broke after a while, e.g. showing a gray (instead of a white) background in the question card, for some reason. Whenever that gray card comes up I know the answer immediately, without even having fully read the question (which I forget over time). So in the end, what my brain remembers is: <question card with a medium-length sentence and gray background> comes up -> answer = "propensity". (I'm learning English as a foreign language). 2) A lot of knowledge in books that I read (let's take the "Pragmatic programmer" as an example) is not suited for flash card system learning. It's knowledge of the form "if this happens, do that", e.g. "if you are about to write a new method in your source code, think of how you would test that method first, to improve the method's quality". Sure, I could create a flash card that has the question: "what should you do when you write a new method?", but it's pointless. These kinds of things require deliberate practice for the specific situations, when you are in the IDE, not in the SRS software. It's methodological knowledge where, in the end, it doesn't matter if you could answer the question when someone asked you about it on the street, but it matters that you remember when you're in the actual situation.

keiferski 6y ago
I replied to another comment about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23319745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23319745 I think the solution is to get more creative with the cards. Use them as cues for situations, add images, etc. The notecard format is just the way Anki is designed, but SRS doesn’t necessarily need to be limited to a strict text card format.
- kiba 6y ago
  Probably helps to have multiple cards asking questions in different ways.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  Images. Yes! They say adding an image helps with memory. Ironically, I don't recall where I read that. But most importantly, I do remember that I did.
adamsea 6y ago
I prefer the Sherlock Holmes approach - my mind is an attic, it only has so much space, so I’m okay emptying it of extraneous shit and then refilling it on an as-needed basis :).
DecayingOrganic 6y ago
I've also created an "Anki Vocabulary Program", all you have to do is basically open the terminal and type "add targetWord definitionOrImageUrl" and it does the following: 1. Creates an anki card with basic word -> definition or image 2. Creates an anki card with writing exercise for the word 3. Creates an anki card with pronunciation exercise for the word (fetches audio file on fly) 4. Creates an anki card featuring a dynamic cloze exercise (fetches 250 example sentences for the word, stores it in a database, serves a random one each time an anki card requests it, a custom-made card (in Anki) hides the word in the sentence, provides the ability to request a new sentence or reveal a letter as a hint) And adds these cards to a specified deck. It's proved very useful so far.
- danielscrubs 6y ago
  I've created my own flash card software that haves each deck in Markdown (the writing of the notes are as important as the study) and predicts when the deck will have been learned (for goal setting and motivation). Anyway you have some really great ideas. Mind if I have a look at your solution?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- misiti3780 6y ago
  where do you fetch the audio from?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
Scarblac 6y ago
The Zettelkasten approach doesn't require memorization at all, it is assumed that you will keep working with your notes forever and they are the memory. But it also emphasises putting each idea on its own note, paraphrasing into your own words rather than merely copying, and thinking deeply about other notes and topics you already have that the new note might relate to. And that has to help with remembering them.
- qznc 6y ago
  Zettelkasten externalises associations. Spaced repetition trains recall. I'd say they complement each other well.
tarsinge 6y ago
Regarding 2), I write cards on the structure, for example to rot learn the table of content, key sections or enumerations. It’s usually enough to create a path in my mind so that I can access the memory of the content in situations where I need it.
rajlego 6y ago
What do you mean by the classical version of SuperMemo? Why not incremental reading? I think a lot of the issues you mentioned are hinged on formulation which is a really hard skill and requires a lot of practice. Unfortunately I think anki is terrible for it because unlike SM it’s not that convenient (nor intended) for you to edit cards for applicability on each go.
- LittleFishyChan 6y ago
  Good point, SuperMemo is kind of made for you to make gradual adjustments to your flash cards, at least on the web site that is encouraged. Maybe you make a flash card in incremental reading, you don’t have to fix it right away, you can wait until the next review cycle to make a change.
chiefalchemist 6y ago
I feel this issue isn't recall as much as usage. That is, you retain (via habit) what you put to use and continue to use. I read mostly non-fiction. What most people would call business books. I read paper (not digital) and like to highlight. I don't retain a lot of details per se. That said, much of it isn't necessarily new. Often key points are reinforcement of concepts I'm already familiar with. That said, I do want to start doing ten key points summaries. I see ten as being enough but not too much. To force myself into a box that's chunkable. I'll resign myself to the fact that eleven and beyond just weren't good enough.
kd5bjo 6y ago
> These kinds of things require deliberate practice for the specific situations, when you are in the IDE, not in the SRS software This is what checklists and reference sheets are for. After learning how to do something, file away a reference somewhere and put the existence of that reference in your SRS. When you come back to that activity after a long break, you then have a physical artifact to help jog your memory.

keiferski 6y ago

I replied to another comment about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23319745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23319745 I think the solution is to get more creative with the cards. Use them as cues for situations, add images, etc. The notecard format is just the way Anki is designed, but SRS doesn’t necessarily need to be limited to a strict text card format.

kiba 6y ago
Probably helps to have multiple cards asking questions in different ways.
chiefalchemist 6y ago
Images. Yes! They say adding an image helps with memory. Ironically, I don't recall where I read that. But most importantly, I do remember that I did.

adamsea 6y ago

I prefer the Sherlock Holmes approach - my mind is an attic, it only has so much space, so I’m okay emptying it of extraneous shit and then refilling it on an as-needed basis :).

DecayingOrganic 6y ago

I've also created an "Anki Vocabulary Program", all you have to do is basically open the terminal and type "add targetWord definitionOrImageUrl" and it does the following: 1. Creates an anki card with basic word -> definition or image 2. Creates an anki card with writing exercise for the word 3. Creates an anki card with pronunciation exercise for the word (fetches audio file on fly) 4. Creates an anki card featuring a dynamic cloze exercise (fetches 250 example sentences for the word, stores it in a database, serves a random one each time an anki card requests it, a custom-made card (in Anki) hides the word in the sentence, provides the ability to request a new sentence or reveal a letter as a hint) And adds these cards to a specified deck. It's proved very useful so far.

danielscrubs 6y ago
I've created my own flash card software that haves each deck in Markdown (the writing of the notes are as important as the study) and predicts when the deck will have been learned (for goal setting and motivation). Anyway you have some really great ideas. Mind if I have a look at your solution?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
misiti3780 6y ago
where do you fetch the audio from?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

Scarblac 6y ago

The Zettelkasten approach doesn't require memorization at all, it is assumed that you will keep working with your notes forever and they are the memory. But it also emphasises putting each idea on its own note, paraphrasing into your own words rather than merely copying, and thinking deeply about other notes and topics you already have that the new note might relate to. And that has to help with remembering them.

qznc 6y ago
Zettelkasten externalises associations. Spaced repetition trains recall. I'd say they complement each other well.

tarsinge 6y ago

Regarding 2), I write cards on the structure, for example to rot learn the table of content, key sections or enumerations. It’s usually enough to create a path in my mind so that I can access the memory of the content in situations where I need it.

rajlego 6y ago

What do you mean by the classical version of SuperMemo? Why not incremental reading? I think a lot of the issues you mentioned are hinged on formulation which is a really hard skill and requires a lot of practice. Unfortunately I think anki is terrible for it because unlike SM it’s not that convenient (nor intended) for you to edit cards for applicability on each go.

LittleFishyChan 6y ago
Good point, SuperMemo is kind of made for you to make gradual adjustments to your flash cards, at least on the web site that is encouraged. Maybe you make a flash card in incremental reading, you don’t have to fix it right away, you can wait until the next review cycle to make a change.

chiefalchemist 6y ago

I feel this issue isn't recall as much as usage. That is, you retain (via habit) what you put to use and continue to use. I read mostly non-fiction. What most people would call business books. I read paper (not digital) and like to highlight. I don't retain a lot of details per se. That said, much of it isn't necessarily new. Often key points are reinforcement of concepts I'm already familiar with. That said, I do want to start doing ten key points summaries. I see ten as being enough but not too much. To force myself into a box that's chunkable. I'll resign myself to the fact that eleven and beyond just weren't good enough.

kd5bjo 6y ago

> These kinds of things require deliberate practice for the specific situations, when you are in the IDE, not in the SRS software This is what checklists and reference sheets are for. After learning how to do something, file away a reference somewhere and put the existence of that reference in your SRS. When you come back to that activity after a long break, you then have a physical artifact to help jog your memory.