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Two points: 1. The title does not make huge claims directly, but strongly implies it. That's how I read it when I was skimming the front page of HN. It's like

Two points: 1. The title does not make huge claims directly, but strongly implies it. That's how I read it when I was skimming the front page of HN. It's like writing an article with the title "I taught Michael Jordan basketball" and then explain how you showed him how to throw a ball for 30 minutes when he was the 5 years old. Or the old maxim that if you are a cashier at McDonald's, you can technically say that you "process high-frequency cash transactions for multi-billion dollar company on rotating supply-demand cycle". 2. I don't like how the common advice for writing resume, which I can only presume reflects what hiring managers want to see in someone's resume, says you must quantify your achievements. You cannot just say I wrote the login system. You must somehow tie it to a business objective and achievement (increases sales by 7%, reduced support calls by 12%, etc). In reality, projects are often team efforts and except for certain niches such as sales and consulting, there is rarely a clear correlation between an individual employee's actions and business's results. I don't like writing pretending there is and writing it, and I don't like reading it.

tibbetts 6y ago
I don’t know about pretending a correlation, but a common challenge for engineering and product ICs who are trying to become more senior or have a bigger impact is understanding how their work relates to the big picture. I often ask engineers why they are (to use your example) rewriting the login system, and is there is any way to quantify the results. This helps to avoid engineers polishing an already-round ball, and to have some kind of accountability for outcomes. If you are rewriting login to cut down on tech support calls or to make it work with third party auth or work with legacy enterprise garbage, all those reasons are tangible and possible to quantify.
noch 6y ago
> I don't like how the common advice for writing resume, which I can only presume reflects what hiring managers want to see in someone's resume, says you must quantify your achievements. It's not about résumés but about how the skill of measuring/estimating one's own effectiveness/impact/productivity is positively correlated with successful outcomes and rate of progress in life in general. Recall Mike Acton's principle questions[0] that a goal-orientated individual must answer: >> - I can articulate precisely what problem I am trying to solve. >> - I have articulated precisely what problem I am trying to solve. >> - I have confirmed that someone else can articulate what problem I am trying to solve. >> - I can articulate why my problem is important to solve. >> - I can articulate how much my problem is worth solving. [0]: https://www.dropbox.com/s/doiq8ovho1k9d4b/fired.pptx?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/doiq8ovho1k9d4b/fired.pptx?dl=0
- bonoboTP 6y ago
  Or more cynically, keep on doing your thing at your core, but do know that people expect to hear stuff like that so consciously sit down and architect some answers to those things. You can reinterpret and rewrite the story later, but you need to have one. Also you don't have to get too attached to it and believe it too much. Think of it as your interface towards society. They cannot all have time to actually latch onto your inner person. You must present to them all the handles you want to be grabbable by.
Roritharr 6y ago
> Or the old maxim that if you are a cashier at McDonald's, you can technically say that you "process high-frequency cash transactions for multi-billion dollar company on rotating supply-demand cycle". Having read about 100 CVs in the past month, this made me chuckle. Yes, people actually word their CVs like this.
- swyx 6y ago
  ngl, if I read that I'd be impressed at the sheer moxie and marketing ability
  - anewdirection 6y ago
    After the 50th one, the novelty wears off and it just smells desprate. Don't do, or reward, this bs.
fizixer 6y ago
Agreed. Take any gosh-darn company on earth that's brought in $1bn in revenue. Now take all of their employees. Each of those employees has a story that could be titled: How I helped xyz with abc that ended up with that company bringing in $1b in revenue. The number of such employees in the whole world is somewhere between 10 million and 7 billion.
thaumasiotes 6y ago
> if you are a cashier at McDonald's, you can technically say that you "process high-frequency cash transactions for multi-billion dollar company on rotating supply-demand cycle" I'm not sure this is technically accurate. The transactions a cashier at McDonald's handles would usually be "for" the franchise where they work, not for McDonald's itself.
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  Replace it with Walmart, or imagine it is for someone who worked for one of the 7% of MacDonald's locations that are not franchised. The point still stands.
bonoboTP 6y ago
The numbers are not the point. In some sense it's exactly to weed out those who cannot just say A or B and stop at "well if you look at it like this then A, but perhaps B...". It's 12%, and that's it. You signal that you care about making money for your boss, which, however we twist it, is the reason and hope behind every hire. Its a cultural thing. They fear ending up with a bunch of people who just want to have fun with elegant code and tech and polish some corner of the app for a esthetic satisfaction. They fear not even being able to communicate effectively about your role in the business. Being able to say 12% is much better than not even thinking of trying to estimate it. Theoretically, a nuanced view would be even better but there is a time and place to be nuanced and witty and thats not on the HR desk.

tibbetts 6y ago

I don’t know about pretending a correlation, but a common challenge for engineering and product ICs who are trying to become more senior or have a bigger impact is understanding how their work relates to the big picture. I often ask engineers why they are (to use your example) rewriting the login system, and is there is any way to quantify the results. This helps to avoid engineers polishing an already-round ball, and to have some kind of accountability for outcomes. If you are rewriting login to cut down on tech support calls or to make it work with third party auth or work with legacy enterprise garbage, all those reasons are tangible and possible to quantify.

noch 6y ago

> I don't like how the common advice for writing resume, which I can only presume reflects what hiring managers want to see in someone's resume, says you must quantify your achievements. It's not about résumés but about how the skill of measuring/estimating one's own effectiveness/impact/productivity is positively correlated with successful outcomes and rate of progress in life in general. Recall Mike Acton's principle questions[0] that a goal-orientated individual must answer: >> - I can articulate precisely what problem I am trying to solve. >> - I have articulated precisely what problem I am trying to solve. >> - I have confirmed that someone else can articulate what problem I am trying to solve. >> - I can articulate why my problem is important to solve. >> - I can articulate how much my problem is worth solving. [0]: https://www.dropbox.com/s/doiq8ovho1k9d4b/fired.pptx?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/doiq8ovho1k9d4b/fired.pptx?dl=0

bonoboTP 6y ago
Or more cynically, keep on doing your thing at your core, but do know that people expect to hear stuff like that so consciously sit down and architect some answers to those things. You can reinterpret and rewrite the story later, but you need to have one. Also you don't have to get too attached to it and believe it too much. Think of it as your interface towards society. They cannot all have time to actually latch onto your inner person. You must present to them all the handles you want to be grabbable by.

Roritharr 6y ago

> Or the old maxim that if you are a cashier at McDonald's, you can technically say that you "process high-frequency cash transactions for multi-billion dollar company on rotating supply-demand cycle". Having read about 100 CVs in the past month, this made me chuckle. Yes, people actually word their CVs like this.

swyx 6y ago
ngl, if I read that I'd be impressed at the sheer moxie and marketing ability
- anewdirection 6y ago
  After the 50th one, the novelty wears off and it just smells desprate. Don't do, or reward, this bs.

fizixer 6y ago

Agreed. Take any gosh-darn company on earth that's brought in $1bn in revenue. Now take all of their employees. Each of those employees has a story that could be titled: How I helped xyz with abc that ended up with that company bringing in $1b in revenue. The number of such employees in the whole world is somewhere between 10 million and 7 billion.

thaumasiotes 6y ago

> if you are a cashier at McDonald's, you can technically say that you "process high-frequency cash transactions for multi-billion dollar company on rotating supply-demand cycle" I'm not sure this is technically accurate. The transactions a cashier at McDonald's handles would usually be "for" the franchise where they work, not for McDonald's itself.

smnrchrds 6y ago
Replace it with Walmart, or imagine it is for someone who worked for one of the 7% of MacDonald's locations that are not franchised. The point still stands.

bonoboTP 6y ago

The numbers are not the point. In some sense it's exactly to weed out those who cannot just say A or B and stop at "well if you look at it like this then A, but perhaps B...". It's 12%, and that's it. You signal that you care about making money for your boss, which, however we twist it, is the reason and hope behind every hire. Its a cultural thing. They fear ending up with a bunch of people who just want to have fun with elegant code and tech and polish some corner of the app for a esthetic satisfaction. They fear not even being able to communicate effectively about your role in the business. Being able to say 12% is much better than not even thinking of trying to estimate it. Theoretically, a nuanced view would be even better but there is a time and place to be nuanced and witty and thats not on the HR desk.