4 ms·

I would've asked: "Where's my Elite 4?" :(

by jalada 16y ago

iwwr 16y ago
The next Elite is stuck in development hell, delayed indefinitely. However, I would think the next Elite should come in the form of a MMO.
- stuhacking 16y ago
  You mean like Eve Online? :-) http://www.eveonline.com/ http://www.eveonline.com/ Actually, this response is directed towards shogunmike also. Just in case you haven't heard of Eve, it's a spaced themed MMO very much to the tune of Elite. You can make a living mining, trading, fighting. The factions are split onto two levels: Corporations (companies that employ/hire individual players) and Alliances (gropps of corporations with similar vision/goals) The ecomony is almost entirely player driven.. the materials are mined by players, the equipment is built by players from those materials. You are free to engage in hostile activity even in controlled space, although the penalty is severe. It's worth a look. The freedom of play has allowed some players to gain notoriety even in the mass media (Note: exchanging game money for real world currency is a violation of the rules): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm
  - shogunmike 16y ago
    Yes, I have heard of Eve Online, but didn't realise all of these dynamics had been put in place. I'm sure I can dig answers out to these questions elsewhere, but I thought I'd ask how the economy is balanced. For instance, mining new materials obviously increases supply. To what extent is this activity capped by the game mechanics in order to keep demand at a reasonable level? I've heard of space stations being bought and sold, but I think this was a separate MMO. Not far off restoring houses and flipping for profit in the real world!
    - stuhacking 16y ago
      I'm afraid I can't personally provide a detailed run down - I played the game for about 6 months near the end of university and after that I never really found enough free time to justify continuing the subscription. The Wikipedia page seems to be comprehensive though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_Online#Economy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_Online#Economy I would take a look at the development section also. They use a Python variant called Stackless (http://www.stackless.com http://www.stackless.com) which provides lightweight threads and message passing. I actually started using this as an alternative to regular CPython.
  - AlisdairO 16y ago
    A sadly pretty-my-dead alternative was Jumpgate, quite an early MMO. It had quite poor economy features, but fantastic seeat-of-your-pants physics and joystick control.
    - damncabbage 16y ago
      Have a look at http://vendetta-online.com http://vendetta-online.com - it's pretty much its spiritual successor, and a bunch of players are ex-Jumpgate fans.
  - andy_boot 16y ago
    I never played Eve Online for fear that I might never emerge from my room again.. ever. I had enough trouble stopping playing WoW.
  - stuhacking 16y ago
    I just realised I screwed up the second link - should have been: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8132547.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8132547.stm
- wladimir 16y ago
  No no no not an MMO, please. Just a single player game with a huge world to explore and a nice immersive storyline. Like the original Elites. Why does everything have to be MMO these days. MMOs usually revolve around doing repetitive 'work' to gain points so you can buy better stuff than other players, I find that boring. (yes, EVE online is nice, CCP did an excellent job, but IMO we don't need another one of those)
  - iujyhgtfhj 16y ago
    Single player pays once, MMO player pays every month
    - wladimir 16y ago
      Assuming that your MMO gains enough momentum. Otherwise, the cost of setting up massive server infrastructure and distributed software, and hiring people to manage and moderate all of it, might well be more than you earn back every month. Those odds are incredibly stacked against you: - an MMO inherently requires a lot of the player's time, so the by-far most won't be playing more than one. Would they choose your game? - network effects: players will usually flock to a game that has a lot of players already. - people that know Elite are generally older with jobs, the target audience for MMOs are younger players with a lot of free time. With EVE Online being the big elephant in this room, I doubt an Elite MMO will be much of a succes. Then again, feel free to prove me wrong, I'd probably sign up just for old times sake :)
      - iujyhgtfhj 16y ago
        I just meant that financially MMOs are much more attractive for the publisher than a single player console game. The cost of the infrastructure servers isn't high compared to the 1000s of man years salary to build a major game, and with cloud services it can scale so you only pay as new customers come in. MMOs tend to be older players, mostly male in 30s. These are the audience that can pay $30-60/month without noticing. The Teenagers tend to be casual gamers and a bigger market for phones/consoles - especially 1-2 player games.
shogunmike 16y ago
Although there were basic market dynamics in Frontier and First Encounters, I always felt it was too straightforward to fly between Sol and Barnard's Star selling robots without any risk. Market forces in an Elite-themed MMO environment would make it such an enjoyable experience. One can imagination hunting around star systems affected by war, supplying them medicine (or even black market weapons!), having to compete with other players to get the best deal. Do I upgrade my trade capacity to make more of a profit or do I install a laser bank to reduce the risk of making any? What will the other guy(s) do? Can I hire somebody to protect me who will take a share of the profit? Infinitely more fun than the 'grind...grind...grind...' dynamic that plagues MMOs these days.

I would've asked: "Where's my Elite 4?" :(

by jalada 16y ago

I would've asked: "Where's my Elite 4?" :(

iwwr 16y ago

The next Elite is stuck in development hell, delayed indefinitely. However, I would think the next Elite should come in the form of a MMO.

stuhacking 16y ago
You mean like Eve Online? :-) http://www.eveonline.com/ http://www.eveonline.com/ Actually, this response is directed towards shogunmike also. Just in case you haven't heard of Eve, it's a spaced themed MMO very much to the tune of Elite. You can make a living mining, trading, fighting. The factions are split onto two levels: Corporations (companies that employ/hire individual players) and Alliances (gropps of corporations with similar vision/goals) The ecomony is almost entirely player driven.. the materials are mined by players, the equipment is built by players from those materials. You are free to engage in hostile activity even in controlled space, although the penalty is severe. It's worth a look. The freedom of play has allowed some players to gain notoriety even in the mass media (Note: exchanging game money for real world currency is a violation of the rules): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7256069.stm
- shogunmike 16y ago
  Yes, I have heard of Eve Online, but didn't realise all of these dynamics had been put in place. I'm sure I can dig answers out to these questions elsewhere, but I thought I'd ask how the economy is balanced. For instance, mining new materials obviously increases supply. To what extent is this activity capped by the game mechanics in order to keep demand at a reasonable level? I've heard of space stations being bought and sold, but I think this was a separate MMO. Not far off restoring houses and flipping for profit in the real world!
  - stuhacking 16y ago
    I'm afraid I can't personally provide a detailed run down - I played the game for about 6 months near the end of university and after that I never really found enough free time to justify continuing the subscription. The Wikipedia page seems to be comprehensive though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_Online#Economy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_Online#Economy I would take a look at the development section also. They use a Python variant called Stackless (http://www.stackless.com http://www.stackless.com) which provides lightweight threads and message passing. I actually started using this as an alternative to regular CPython.
- AlisdairO 16y ago
  A sadly pretty-my-dead alternative was Jumpgate, quite an early MMO. It had quite poor economy features, but fantastic seeat-of-your-pants physics and joystick control.
  - damncabbage 16y ago
    Have a look at http://vendetta-online.com http://vendetta-online.com - it's pretty much its spiritual successor, and a bunch of players are ex-Jumpgate fans.
- andy_boot 16y ago
  I never played Eve Online for fear that I might never emerge from my room again.. ever. I had enough trouble stopping playing WoW.
- stuhacking 16y ago
  I just realised I screwed up the second link - should have been: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8132547.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8132547.stm
wladimir 16y ago
No no no not an MMO, please. Just a single player game with a huge world to explore and a nice immersive storyline. Like the original Elites. Why does everything have to be MMO these days. MMOs usually revolve around doing repetitive 'work' to gain points so you can buy better stuff than other players, I find that boring. (yes, EVE online is nice, CCP did an excellent job, but IMO we don't need another one of those)
- iujyhgtfhj 16y ago
  Single player pays once, MMO player pays every month
  - wladimir 16y ago
    Assuming that your MMO gains enough momentum. Otherwise, the cost of setting up massive server infrastructure and distributed software, and hiring people to manage and moderate all of it, might well be more than you earn back every month. Those odds are incredibly stacked against you: - an MMO inherently requires a lot of the player's time, so the by-far most won't be playing more than one. Would they choose your game? - network effects: players will usually flock to a game that has a lot of players already. - people that know Elite are generally older with jobs, the target audience for MMOs are younger players with a lot of free time. With EVE Online being the big elephant in this room, I doubt an Elite MMO will be much of a succes. Then again, feel free to prove me wrong, I'd probably sign up just for old times sake :)
    - iujyhgtfhj 16y ago
      I just meant that financially MMOs are much more attractive for the publisher than a single player console game. The cost of the infrastructure servers isn't high compared to the 1000s of man years salary to build a major game, and with cloud services it can scale so you only pay as new customers come in. MMOs tend to be older players, mostly male in 30s. These are the audience that can pay $30-60/month without noticing. The Teenagers tend to be casual gamers and a bigger market for phones/consoles - especially 1-2 player games.

shogunmike 16y ago

Although there were basic market dynamics in Frontier and First Encounters, I always felt it was too straightforward to fly between Sol and Barnard's Star selling robots without any risk. Market forces in an Elite-themed MMO environment would make it such an enjoyable experience. One can imagination hunting around star systems affected by war, supplying them medicine (or even black market weapons!), having to compete with other players to get the best deal. Do I upgrade my trade capacity to make more of a profit or do I install a laser bank to reduce the risk of making any? What will the other guy(s) do? Can I hire somebody to protect me who will take a share of the profit? Infinitely more fun than the 'grind...grind...grind...' dynamic that plagues MMOs these days.