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From my experience there are very strong currents in a group that are very hard to go against as an individual. Only very contrarian people will go against the

by toshk 6y ago

From my experience there are very strong currents in a group that are very hard to go against as an individual. Only very contrarian people will go against the grain in formal meetings with high level executives or other individuals with status in a group. This is why often big organizations are able to produce decisions that the team behind it doesn't agree with and that look silly from the outside. Many people in such a team will not feel personally responsible because they feel like they didn't have any influence on the decision making proces, even if they could have said something. There are other dynamics at play I think, but this is one of them. (The contrarians seem to not survive long in the corporate world)

abawany 6y ago
Also, IME, if you do say something, others jump down your throat quickly and viciously. I still remember this one former cow-orker and his words: 'they debate, they decide, we deliver': this project ended up losing the company millions and left it as a has-been in ecommerce because people chose to accept and support the utter insanity that was going on right in front of their faces.
rewoi 6y ago
As a programmer I am not responsible (and paid) for management decisions. It is also not my job to fix toxic culture in a company.
- hnruss 6y ago
  As management is responsible for bad management decisions, so too is the programmer responsible for implementing bad decisions.
  - rewoi 6y ago
    Programmer can still implement bad decision very well :)
sjg007 6y ago
This dynamic is present in FB the website as well. You find clusters or groups of folks who re-amplify a point. It's so effective that you can find "Re-Open" rallies in your state driven by a shady "gun-rights" nonprofit. Even though polling largely supports the lock down and actions taken to curb the pandemic. You also find that outside the group people are a lot more nuanced and reasonable. It's fascinating. What is even more concerning is that a lot of bots drive this behavior. I think the issue is that in the long term it dilutes FB. I know many people who don't post on FB, preferring Instagram etc... I know these are still FB platforms but it's a big shift. So FB will eventually become Usenet and effectively non-functional. There's some type of social network that's between Instagram and FB that doesn't exist yet.

by toshk 6y ago

abawany 6y ago

Also, IME, if you do say something, others jump down your throat quickly and viciously. I still remember this one former cow-orker and his words: 'they debate, they decide, we deliver': this project ended up losing the company millions and left it as a has-been in ecommerce because people chose to accept and support the utter insanity that was going on right in front of their faces.

rewoi 6y ago

As a programmer I am not responsible (and paid) for management decisions. It is also not my job to fix toxic culture in a company.

hnruss 6y ago
As management is responsible for bad management decisions, so too is the programmer responsible for implementing bad decisions.
- rewoi 6y ago
  Programmer can still implement bad decision very well :)

sjg007 6y ago

This dynamic is present in FB the website as well. You find clusters or groups of folks who re-amplify a point. It's so effective that you can find "Re-Open" rallies in your state driven by a shady "gun-rights" nonprofit. Even though polling largely supports the lock down and actions taken to curb the pandemic. You also find that outside the group people are a lot more nuanced and reasonable. It's fascinating. What is even more concerning is that a lot of bots drive this behavior. I think the issue is that in the long term it dilutes FB. I know many people who don't post on FB, preferring Instagram etc... I know these are still FB platforms but it's a big shift. So FB will eventually become Usenet and effectively non-functional. There's some type of social network that's between Instagram and FB that doesn't exist yet.