4 ms·

Possible, but I see two big obstacles: 1. Mini-apps are optimized for this one purpose and feels much faster and native, websites won't be able to achieve the

Possible, but I see two big obstacles: 1. Mini-apps are optimized for this one purpose and feels much faster and native, websites won't be able to achieve the same. 2. Some features provided by WeChat is actually important, especially the payment part. Websites won't be able to integrate something like WeChat pay seamlessly as mini-apps do. If it requires users to put in credit card information, it would instantly fail in these countries

wenc 6y ago
I can't comment on 1 but for 2, I'm seeing a lot more merchants (probably Shopify merchants) support mobile payments on their websites (yes websites, not mobile apps) these days. I can now go to a vendor's website (say jrwatkins.com, etc.) on my phone, checkout, do a fingerprint/face scan on Apple Pay and the transaction is done in under 5 seconds. I assume the experience with Google Pay is similar. There's no longer a need to create an account on the website. The delivery address defaults to the one on Apple Pay (and can be modified at time of payment). Delivery method can also be selected on the Apple Pay screen. My credit card number is never transmitted. This type of frictionless checkout that was once the domain of companies like Hoteltonight is now becoming more common on ecommerce sites.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  I was also thinking about Apple Pay in my original comment. But that's iOS-only, and I'm going to hazard a guess that Google Pay doesn't work in China, so we're back to GP's point.
  - wenc 6y ago
    Right since the existing players are entrenched, but might work for other (emerging) countries? We've never been big on mobile payments in the U.S. (because credit cards), but I'm finding myself using Apple Pay more and more. I read somewhere than ~50% of payments in the U.S. are now contactless.
    - echevil 6y ago
      I think it largely depends on how much Apple Pay / Google Pay could abandon their western centric design and invest heavily on localization. Payment solutions are just hard to unify - Lots of people in Indonesia don't have bank accounts, Bank transfer is actually a popular way of transaction in Brazil...
  - echevil 6y ago
    Apple Pay works in China, but basically nobody use it. It's designed with mindset that works in developed markets, and never worked out well in China.
    - wenc 6y ago
      Oh I can see that. When QR codes are so prevalent, the appeal of Apple Pay is probably not great. I'm kind of thinking of markets outside China though.
      - echevil 6y ago
        Chinese companies are also thinking about that so it's matter of what works better in those markets
- echevil 6y ago
  Yeah, if Apple Pay and Google Pay has the same market share then website could integrate those service and achieve the same, I agree. However, Apple Pay and Google Pay are also harder to use from the perspective of both consumers and merchants in these countries in the beginning, and IMO that's the reason they failed in the first place. I don't know what payment methods these services require now, but in the beginning at least, they both supports just credit cards, which is basically suicidal. Most users won't be able to use it at all. From merchants' perspective, they don't need to pay for transactions on WeChat Pay or AliPay, whereas both Apple Pay and credit card companies would charge them for usage. For this reason most small business wouldn't even think of using them.
  - wenc 6y ago
    Well, from what I'm seeing Apple Pay is gaining traction here in the U.S. Since the NFC part isn't proprietary, it works with almost any terminal (Ingenico, Verifone) that supports contactless payments (with few exceptions). It supports Apple Cash, which in turn can funded via a bank debit card. (kind of like Venmo). There's no transaction fee with Apple Cash. I believe there are currently no additional fees on the merchant side to accept Apple Pay [1], unless the customer uses a credit card via Apple Pay in which case the standard credit card fees apply. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204274 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204274
  - cxr 6y ago
    > Yeah, if Apple Pay and Google Pay has the same market share then website could integrate those service According to the Apple developer docs[1], websites don't have to integrate with Apple Pay specifically; Safari also supports the (fairly new) platform-neutral Payment Request API[2]. Google's docs[3] suggest that something similar is available for Chrome on Android. 1. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_web https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_w... 2. https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-request/ https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-request/ 3. https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/payments https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/payments
- cadmuxe 6y ago
  The point is the QR based wechat payment is available for all kind of phones and it's available early than apple pay or google pay. Some merchant like a fruit stand can accept a QR payment, and I don't think they can afford a post machine.
  - wenc 6y ago
    Yes, with any kind of contactless payment, you need an NFC reader (which a smartphone kinda is), but it's much easier to print out a QR code.
    - cadmuxe 6y ago
      yup, and we need to think about the timeline. At very early stage of this story, only limited phones support NFC, So wechat/alipay can quickly occupy the market with the QR base solution.
- lvbu 6y ago
  In India, it is quite similar and popular. However we can do that with a variety of apps. The amount will be deducted from account. It uses the unified payments interface (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface) tech and Bharath QR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BharatQR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BharatQR)

wenc 6y ago

I can't comment on 1 but for 2, I'm seeing a lot more merchants (probably Shopify merchants) support mobile payments on their websites (yes websites, not mobile apps) these days. I can now go to a vendor's website (say jrwatkins.com, etc.) on my phone, checkout, do a fingerprint/face scan on Apple Pay and the transaction is done in under 5 seconds. I assume the experience with Google Pay is similar. There's no longer a need to create an account on the website. The delivery address defaults to the one on Apple Pay (and can be modified at time of payment). Delivery method can also be selected on the Apple Pay screen. My credit card number is never transmitted. This type of frictionless checkout that was once the domain of companies like Hoteltonight is now becoming more common on ecommerce sites.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
I was also thinking about Apple Pay in my original comment. But that's iOS-only, and I'm going to hazard a guess that Google Pay doesn't work in China, so we're back to GP's point.
- wenc 6y ago
  Right since the existing players are entrenched, but might work for other (emerging) countries? We've never been big on mobile payments in the U.S. (because credit cards), but I'm finding myself using Apple Pay more and more. I read somewhere than ~50% of payments in the U.S. are now contactless.
  - echevil 6y ago
    I think it largely depends on how much Apple Pay / Google Pay could abandon their western centric design and invest heavily on localization. Payment solutions are just hard to unify - Lots of people in Indonesia don't have bank accounts, Bank transfer is actually a popular way of transaction in Brazil...
- echevil 6y ago
  Apple Pay works in China, but basically nobody use it. It's designed with mindset that works in developed markets, and never worked out well in China.
  - wenc 6y ago
    Oh I can see that. When QR codes are so prevalent, the appeal of Apple Pay is probably not great. I'm kind of thinking of markets outside China though.
    - echevil 6y ago
      Chinese companies are also thinking about that so it's matter of what works better in those markets
echevil 6y ago
Yeah, if Apple Pay and Google Pay has the same market share then website could integrate those service and achieve the same, I agree. However, Apple Pay and Google Pay are also harder to use from the perspective of both consumers and merchants in these countries in the beginning, and IMO that's the reason they failed in the first place. I don't know what payment methods these services require now, but in the beginning at least, they both supports just credit cards, which is basically suicidal. Most users won't be able to use it at all. From merchants' perspective, they don't need to pay for transactions on WeChat Pay or AliPay, whereas both Apple Pay and credit card companies would charge them for usage. For this reason most small business wouldn't even think of using them.
- wenc 6y ago
  Well, from what I'm seeing Apple Pay is gaining traction here in the U.S. Since the NFC part isn't proprietary, it works with almost any terminal (Ingenico, Verifone) that supports contactless payments (with few exceptions). It supports Apple Cash, which in turn can funded via a bank debit card. (kind of like Venmo). There's no transaction fee with Apple Cash. I believe there are currently no additional fees on the merchant side to accept Apple Pay [1], unless the customer uses a credit card via Apple Pay in which case the standard credit card fees apply. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204274 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204274
- cxr 6y ago
  > Yeah, if Apple Pay and Google Pay has the same market share then website could integrate those service According to the Apple developer docs[1], websites don't have to integrate with Apple Pay specifically; Safari also supports the (fairly new) platform-neutral Payment Request API[2]. Google's docs[3] suggest that something similar is available for Chrome on Android. 1. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_web https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_w... 2. https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-request/ https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-request/ 3. https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/payments https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/payments
cadmuxe 6y ago
The point is the QR based wechat payment is available for all kind of phones and it's available early than apple pay or google pay. Some merchant like a fruit stand can accept a QR payment, and I don't think they can afford a post machine.
- wenc 6y ago
  Yes, with any kind of contactless payment, you need an NFC reader (which a smartphone kinda is), but it's much easier to print out a QR code.
  - cadmuxe 6y ago
    yup, and we need to think about the timeline. At very early stage of this story, only limited phones support NFC, So wechat/alipay can quickly occupy the market with the QR base solution.
lvbu 6y ago
In India, it is quite similar and popular. However we can do that with a variety of apps. The amount will be deducted from account. It uses the unified payments interface (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface) tech and Bharath QR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BharatQR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BharatQR)