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In China and other emerging markets, downloading apps from app store are just something that many users would rarely do, no matter it is App Store, Play Store,

In China and other emerging markets, downloading apps from app store are just something that many users would rarely do, no matter it is App Store, Play Store, or many other Android App Stores available in China. It is a big obstacle that most US developers never realised. The main benefit of super apps, and why it is so popular in those countries, is that it doesn't require users to download anything to use new feature. In some use cases I also found that so convenient. Just as an example, WeChat has an ecosystem of mini-apps. When you go to a restaurant in China, you can often find QR code on each table. If you can that QR code, it would open a mini-apps that lets you place orders and make payments, without waiting for the waiter to serve you. A mini app is like a website that doesn't require download and storage on the phone, but the user experience feels more native and is tightly integrated with features available in WeChat. It would be much harder to get users if the same thing requires you download an app.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Could you effectively replicate the restaurant example by having a qr code that leads to a website when scanned? A nice, smooth, mobile-optimized website, I mean.
- echevil 6y ago
  Possible, but I see two big obstacles: 1. Mini-apps are optimized for this one purpose and feels much faster and native, websites won't be able to achieve the same. 2. Some features provided by WeChat is actually important, especially the payment part. Websites won't be able to integrate something like WeChat pay seamlessly as mini-apps do. If it requires users to put in credit card information, it would instantly fail in these countries
  - wenc 6y ago
    I can't comment on 1 but for 2, I'm seeing a lot more merchants (probably Shopify merchants) support mobile payments on their websites (yes websites, not mobile apps) these days. I can now go to a vendor's website (say jrwatkins.com, etc.) on my phone, checkout, do a fingerprint/face scan on Apple Pay and the transaction is done in under 5 seconds. I assume the experience with Google Pay is similar. There's no longer a need to create an account on the website. The delivery address defaults to the one on Apple Pay (and can be modified at time of payment). Delivery method can also be selected on the Apple Pay screen. My credit card number is never transmitted. This type of frictionless checkout that was once the domain of companies like Hoteltonight is now becoming more common on ecommerce sites.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      I was also thinking about Apple Pay in my original comment. But that's iOS-only, and I'm going to hazard a guess that Google Pay doesn't work in China, so we're back to GP's point.
      - wenc 6y ago
        Right since the existing players are entrenched, but might work for other (emerging) countries? We've never been big on mobile payments in the U.S. (because credit cards), but I'm finding myself using Apple Pay more and more. I read somewhere than ~50% of payments in the U.S. are now contactless.
        echevil 6y ago
        I think it largely depends on how much Apple Pay / Google Pay could abandon their western centric design and invest heavily on localization. Payment solutions are just hard to unify - Lots of people in Indonesia don't have bank accounts, Bank transfer is actually a popular way of transaction in Brazil...
      - echevil 6y ago
        Apple Pay works in China, but basically nobody use it. It's designed with mindset that works in developed markets, and never worked out well in China.
        wenc 6y ago
        Oh I can see that. When QR codes are so prevalent, the appeal of Apple Pay is probably not great. I'm kind of thinking of markets outside China though.
        echevil 6y ago
        Chinese companies are also thinking about that so it's matter of what works better in those markets
    - 6y ago
- jeroenhd 6y ago
  On Android, there's Instant Apps[1] though for some reason Google hasn't integrated them on all devices. They work through links/QR codes and through NFC tags. I believe they might also be accessible though the Google Bluetooth Le beacon API (so when you enable the specific feature, you'll get a popup like "this location serves the following app" which you can then instantly launch). I don't know about iOS but the two copy features from each other all the time so Apple probably has it too (if they weren't the first to launch them). Honestly, if you're working from a QR code you might as well just serve a mobile web app. If you add PWA support your customers might even install it if they come around often. [1]: https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7683278 https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7683278
wenc 6y ago
> In China and other emerging markets, downloading apps from app store are just something that many users would rarely do, no matter it is App Store, Play Store, or many other Android App Stores available in China. It is a big obstacle that most US developers never realised. As someone who's never been to China and has never used a super-app: just curious, what are some of the obstacles faced installing a mobile app? Is it that most people don't trust un-curated apps?
- xster 6y ago
  On Android, there isn't one single authoritative app store (since the Play Store isn't available). Therefore every carrier, OEM, major app maker make their own app store (which behaves belligerently to their competitors). The users and app makers get caught in the middle of this messy fight. As a user, you might pick the 'wrong' app store. And developers will never have time to upload every update to 100 app stores, each of which may require slightly different metadata. So the stores clone each other's APK which lead to very slow and irreversible rollouts for devs. In a hyper competitive environment like China, not being able to control exactly when your binaries deploy is a huge, vital vulnerability so it has to be solved. A super app that brings existing user bases solves both the deployment and discoverability problems.
- echevil 6y ago
  In China (especially in tier 3,4 cities and rural places) and similar markets alike where many user have low digital literacy, installing apps from App Store is a skill that lots of users don't have. Their first few apps on their phone were most likely installed with someone else's help. Actually learning every new app is an obstacle, but they managed to learn to a few apps like WeChat because it's super useful. They won't spend time to learn about something that won't bring immediate reward. Once they have a few apps installed on their phone, they'd feel that's enough.
  - jagannathtech 6y ago
    Same thing in India too
- deleted 6y ago

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

Could you effectively replicate the restaurant example by having a qr code that leads to a website when scanned? A nice, smooth, mobile-optimized website, I mean.

echevil 6y ago
Possible, but I see two big obstacles: 1. Mini-apps are optimized for this one purpose and feels much faster and native, websites won't be able to achieve the same. 2. Some features provided by WeChat is actually important, especially the payment part. Websites won't be able to integrate something like WeChat pay seamlessly as mini-apps do. If it requires users to put in credit card information, it would instantly fail in these countries
- wenc 6y ago
  I can't comment on 1 but for 2, I'm seeing a lot more merchants (probably Shopify merchants) support mobile payments on their websites (yes websites, not mobile apps) these days. I can now go to a vendor's website (say jrwatkins.com, etc.) on my phone, checkout, do a fingerprint/face scan on Apple Pay and the transaction is done in under 5 seconds. I assume the experience with Google Pay is similar. There's no longer a need to create an account on the website. The delivery address defaults to the one on Apple Pay (and can be modified at time of payment). Delivery method can also be selected on the Apple Pay screen. My credit card number is never transmitted. This type of frictionless checkout that was once the domain of companies like Hoteltonight is now becoming more common on ecommerce sites.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    I was also thinking about Apple Pay in my original comment. But that's iOS-only, and I'm going to hazard a guess that Google Pay doesn't work in China, so we're back to GP's point.
    - wenc 6y ago
      Right since the existing players are entrenched, but might work for other (emerging) countries? We've never been big on mobile payments in the U.S. (because credit cards), but I'm finding myself using Apple Pay more and more. I read somewhere than ~50% of payments in the U.S. are now contactless.
      - echevil 6y ago
        I think it largely depends on how much Apple Pay / Google Pay could abandon their western centric design and invest heavily on localization. Payment solutions are just hard to unify - Lots of people in Indonesia don't have bank accounts, Bank transfer is actually a popular way of transaction in Brazil...
    - echevil 6y ago
      Apple Pay works in China, but basically nobody use it. It's designed with mindset that works in developed markets, and never worked out well in China.
      - wenc 6y ago
        Oh I can see that. When QR codes are so prevalent, the appeal of Apple Pay is probably not great. I'm kind of thinking of markets outside China though.
        echevil 6y ago
        Chinese companies are also thinking about that so it's matter of what works better in those markets
  - 6y ago
jeroenhd 6y ago
On Android, there's Instant Apps[1] though for some reason Google hasn't integrated them on all devices. They work through links/QR codes and through NFC tags. I believe they might also be accessible though the Google Bluetooth Le beacon API (so when you enable the specific feature, you'll get a popup like "this location serves the following app" which you can then instantly launch). I don't know about iOS but the two copy features from each other all the time so Apple probably has it too (if they weren't the first to launch them). Honestly, if you're working from a QR code you might as well just serve a mobile web app. If you add PWA support your customers might even install it if they come around often. [1]: https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7683278 https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7683278

wenc 6y ago

> In China and other emerging markets, downloading apps from app store are just something that many users would rarely do, no matter it is App Store, Play Store, or many other Android App Stores available in China. It is a big obstacle that most US developers never realised. As someone who's never been to China and has never used a super-app: just curious, what are some of the obstacles faced installing a mobile app? Is it that most people don't trust un-curated apps?

xster 6y ago
On Android, there isn't one single authoritative app store (since the Play Store isn't available). Therefore every carrier, OEM, major app maker make their own app store (which behaves belligerently to their competitors). The users and app makers get caught in the middle of this messy fight. As a user, you might pick the 'wrong' app store. And developers will never have time to upload every update to 100 app stores, each of which may require slightly different metadata. So the stores clone each other's APK which lead to very slow and irreversible rollouts for devs. In a hyper competitive environment like China, not being able to control exactly when your binaries deploy is a huge, vital vulnerability so it has to be solved. A super app that brings existing user bases solves both the deployment and discoverability problems.
echevil 6y ago
In China (especially in tier 3,4 cities and rural places) and similar markets alike where many user have low digital literacy, installing apps from App Store is a skill that lots of users don't have. Their first few apps on their phone were most likely installed with someone else's help. Actually learning every new app is an obstacle, but they managed to learn to a few apps like WeChat because it's super useful. They won't spend time to learn about something that won't bring immediate reward. Once they have a few apps installed on their phone, they'd feel that's enough.
- jagannathtech 6y ago
  Same thing in India too
deleted 6y ago