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That's fine and dandy that author was able to go through those hoops to find success. But there are still those of us who still (maybe naively at this point in

That's fine and dandy that author was able to go through those hoops to find success. But there are still those of us who still (maybe naively at this point in history) believe that if you do things honestly, in good faith, and play by the rules, you should be able to make money too.

hi_im_miles 6y ago
Money doesn't get invested into projects that 'do things honestly', it gets invested into whatever is deemed to make the most profit. There's plenty of people who provide loads of value to those around them (emotional labor, child care, etc) and go largely unpaid. Unless you can generate massive profits, there's little incentive for capitalists to care, and it's capitalists who have all the money and political influence.
- alharith 6y ago
  That's quite the broad brush you are painting all capitalists with. There are many ways to be successful many forms of capitalism, some degenerate yes, some not so degenerate. It is up to good honest people to set the example, because yes the greedy ones will always greed away. History has shown me that it doesn't matter what economic and political system is instituted, greed will find a way to exploit the good intentions of those systems.
  - hi_im_miles 6y ago
    >It is up to good honest people to set the example, because yes the greedy ones will always greed away. A focus on 'greed' or 'honesty' is missing the mark on what I'm saying here. We currently have an economy built on a foundation of historical expropriation, enclosure, colonialism, subsidy, regulatory capture, rent-seeking, etc, and heavily biased towards the resultant monopolies/oligopolies. As a consequence, prices are set at this inflated level of profit, and those who perform labor outside of the interests of these corporations typically aren't able to afford the costs of living (especially without breaking the law). "Greed" isn't really the issue here; the issue is systemic privilege born through violence. >History has shown me that it doesn't matter what economic and political system is instituted It's pretty intuitive that a political system is generally going to be favorable towards those who instituted it, outside of happenstance benevolence from a political elite.
peterwoerner 6y ago
You can make decisions based on the way wish the world operates or you can make decisions based on the way the world actually operates. Both are valid options, but be honest about what you are doing. This isn't a knock toward cynicism or dishonesty. Rather a knock toward the fact that sales, and self-promotion are necessary if you want to make money (why are people going to buy your stuff if they don't know about it and its benefits to them aren't communicated clearly). Also realize that some people are bad actors (pirates) and you need to emotionally and financially protect yourself.
- alharith 6y ago
  It's not wishful thinking to want people to play fair. That's called being a decent human being, so apologies here, but yes that is a knock towards cynicism. Piracy is illegal. The law already protects me against illegal activities. Expecting people to behave legally, and setting your business to succeed in a legal environment is not unreasonable or wishful thinking.
  - peterwoerner 6y ago
    And most people do play fair. But many wont. It isnt unreasonable or wishful thinking to expect to never be robbed. I shouldn't have to lock the door to my apartment, I could probably get away with not locking the door to my apartment, but I lock it anyways.
- majormajor 6y ago
  Arguing that people shouldn't steal shit on a forum where lots of people frequently talk about how they refuse to pay for shit isn't just "dishonesty." That discussion needs to happen, and bad actors who won't recognize that they're bad actors are a huge problem.
  - mcv 6y ago
    You misrepresent the position of many HNers. Most people here don't mind paying for things, the only mind paying for shit; for stuff that's broken, crippled by bad DRM. But when an honest author games a system that tries to take advantage of them and manages to make that work, that's something I applaud.

hi_im_miles 6y ago

Money doesn't get invested into projects that 'do things honestly', it gets invested into whatever is deemed to make the most profit. There's plenty of people who provide loads of value to those around them (emotional labor, child care, etc) and go largely unpaid. Unless you can generate massive profits, there's little incentive for capitalists to care, and it's capitalists who have all the money and political influence.

alharith 6y ago
That's quite the broad brush you are painting all capitalists with. There are many ways to be successful many forms of capitalism, some degenerate yes, some not so degenerate. It is up to good honest people to set the example, because yes the greedy ones will always greed away. History has shown me that it doesn't matter what economic and political system is instituted, greed will find a way to exploit the good intentions of those systems.
- hi_im_miles 6y ago
  >It is up to good honest people to set the example, because yes the greedy ones will always greed away. A focus on 'greed' or 'honesty' is missing the mark on what I'm saying here. We currently have an economy built on a foundation of historical expropriation, enclosure, colonialism, subsidy, regulatory capture, rent-seeking, etc, and heavily biased towards the resultant monopolies/oligopolies. As a consequence, prices are set at this inflated level of profit, and those who perform labor outside of the interests of these corporations typically aren't able to afford the costs of living (especially without breaking the law). "Greed" isn't really the issue here; the issue is systemic privilege born through violence. >History has shown me that it doesn't matter what economic and political system is instituted It's pretty intuitive that a political system is generally going to be favorable towards those who instituted it, outside of happenstance benevolence from a political elite.

peterwoerner 6y ago

You can make decisions based on the way wish the world operates or you can make decisions based on the way the world actually operates. Both are valid options, but be honest about what you are doing. This isn't a knock toward cynicism or dishonesty. Rather a knock toward the fact that sales, and self-promotion are necessary if you want to make money (why are people going to buy your stuff if they don't know about it and its benefits to them aren't communicated clearly). Also realize that some people are bad actors (pirates) and you need to emotionally and financially protect yourself.

alharith 6y ago
It's not wishful thinking to want people to play fair. That's called being a decent human being, so apologies here, but yes that is a knock towards cynicism. Piracy is illegal. The law already protects me against illegal activities. Expecting people to behave legally, and setting your business to succeed in a legal environment is not unreasonable or wishful thinking.
- peterwoerner 6y ago
  And most people do play fair. But many wont. It isnt unreasonable or wishful thinking to expect to never be robbed. I shouldn't have to lock the door to my apartment, I could probably get away with not locking the door to my apartment, but I lock it anyways.
majormajor 6y ago
Arguing that people shouldn't steal shit on a forum where lots of people frequently talk about how they refuse to pay for shit isn't just "dishonesty." That discussion needs to happen, and bad actors who won't recognize that they're bad actors are a huge problem.
- mcv 6y ago
  You misrepresent the position of many HNers. Most people here don't mind paying for things, the only mind paying for shit; for stuff that's broken, crippled by bad DRM. But when an honest author games a system that tries to take advantage of them and manages to make that work, that's something I applaud.