4 ms·

The scary part is that there is a significant contingent of people in tech who believe Youtube is morally justified in doing this because it's a private platfor

The scary part is that there is a significant contingent of people in tech who believe Youtube is morally justified in doing this because it's a private platform, and therefore and not subject to human rights standards like freedom of speech. Want to criticize an abusive regime? Build your own Youtube clone!

catsdanxe 6y ago
Isn't that exactly what bitchute and other platforms are doing?
- henriquez 6y ago
  Yes, but it will be tough for them to compete with YouTube, which has lost money consistently since Google acquired them in the early 2000’s. Google is effectively offering YouTube below cost which creates an anticompetitive effect.
  - ageitgey 6y ago
    YouTube no longer loses money - far from it. It generated 15 billion dollars in revenue in 2019, ~10% of Google's revenue. https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/2019Q4_alphabet_earnings_release.pdf https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/2019Q4_alphabet_earnings...
    - Jommi 6y ago
      That does not mean it doesn't lose money. You're talking about revenue.
judge2020 6y ago
I don't think you can say they're morally justified in doing this, just legally. We can/should use outrage and bad PR to get them to change how their platform works.
marcinzm 6y ago
The problem as we've seen is that giving unlimited freedom of speech on these social platforms results in very bad things as state actors use it to incite social unrest. Of course, in protecting Europe and America's ability to remain safe democracies you also end up protecting China's ability to be a dictatorship. Keep in mind that western governments generally support China so you'd have a private company go against the government policies of the nation it is based in.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gonzo41 6y ago
  People have a choice. Money or democracy, you can have a lot of money and still have democracy. But w hensmall numbers of people have most of the money, the less democracy there is. I know at least in Australia, our political class has certainly decided to make that trade. China has a stack of cash, and we have standards to sell.
gonzo41 6y ago
Don't be evil meh. These are the people who desire to be billionaires, they really do have a devil may care attitude about it all.
BiteCode_dev 6y ago
But the same persons would be scandalized if youtube would censor US politicians propaganda. Because I tell you, looking at Fox News as a European, I can't understand how it qualifies as "news", yet many americans are very attached to it. I'm sure there are plenty of chinese people that feels like Fox News viewers about their own news sources. And they think they are right just as much. And each camp will say "you can't compare us to them because...". It's always the same story: it's not about the truth, it's about power and believes.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  Google blocks what governments don't want spread since it wants to be on good relations with them. Same way it's blocking covid-19 related things that are deemed fake news. And in Germany it'll block Nazis.
- eqdw 6y ago
  Fox news is a laughably pathetic excuse for news. But, so are the rest of the major corporate news outlets. In the US, they're all garbage, and Fox isn't any worse than the others. The best way I can describe this is by analogizing to Canada, where I'm from. In Canada, when you watch or read the news (eg CBC), for the most part it just tells you what happened. In the US, when you watch or read the news, for the most part, it tells you how you're supposed to feel. Of course, Fox tells you you're supposed to feel conservative and (eg) NBC tells you you're supposed to feel progressive. But they all do this. They all editorialize. They all try to manipulate your emotions. None of them are willing to just present facts and let you think for yourself.
  - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
    This is exactly my feeling with French news as well (the mainstream ones at least). Since one of our national sports is to protest, people complain that "they" (the bad news paper or station) is showing one side only, and that "we" are different. In reality they all tell the same thing, objectively without even editorializing it. So I can read Le Monde, Le Figaro, l'Obs, la Croix or l'Humanité and get the same info. And this is very good.
flr03 6y ago
Things are not black or white, I'm afraid. My comment is not directly related to this matter about the Chinese Gov. Freedom of Speech will always collide with questions of hate speech, massive spread of fake informations, astroturfing... You'll always have to draw a line between moderation and censorship, and yes economical interests will be involved but way before that it's already a complex subject. Things are very much grey.
- Natsu 6y ago
  China, though, is known to have a large group of astroturfers making pro-CCP comments, not just to demand censoring terms. Also, it seems odd that this would apply to commenters outside of China.
Enginerrrd 6y ago
There's a startup idea... Build a platform for free expression of ideas that caters to a Chinese market and then wait for the Chinese government to pay you to give them censorship privileges.
- docmars 6y ago
  Brilliant!
Proven 6y ago
> The scary part is that there is a significant contingent of people in tech who believe Youtube is morally justified in doing this because it's a private platform Well, they're wrong. I think most people who don't object to their right to do that think they have right to do it (not that it is the right thing to do, or morally justified).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mrscottson 6y ago
Seems Palmer is spreading conspiracy theories about China while celebrating his company that develops equipment for the US military... sounds like just another case of the "military industrial complex lobbying for war". Retweet a few more retired generals that do the same thing...

catsdanxe 6y ago

Isn't that exactly what bitchute and other platforms are doing?

henriquez 6y ago
Yes, but it will be tough for them to compete with YouTube, which has lost money consistently since Google acquired them in the early 2000’s. Google is effectively offering YouTube below cost which creates an anticompetitive effect.
- ageitgey 6y ago
  YouTube no longer loses money - far from it. It generated 15 billion dollars in revenue in 2019, ~10% of Google's revenue. https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/2019Q4_alphabet_earnings_release.pdf https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/2019Q4_alphabet_earnings...
  - Jommi 6y ago
    That does not mean it doesn't lose money. You're talking about revenue.

judge2020 6y ago

I don't think you can say they're morally justified in doing this, just legally. We can/should use outrage and bad PR to get them to change how their platform works.

marcinzm 6y ago

The problem as we've seen is that giving unlimited freedom of speech on these social platforms results in very bad things as state actors use it to incite social unrest. Of course, in protecting Europe and America's ability to remain safe democracies you also end up protecting China's ability to be a dictatorship. Keep in mind that western governments generally support China so you'd have a private company go against the government policies of the nation it is based in.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gonzo41 6y ago
People have a choice. Money or democracy, you can have a lot of money and still have democracy. But w hensmall numbers of people have most of the money, the less democracy there is. I know at least in Australia, our political class has certainly decided to make that trade. China has a stack of cash, and we have standards to sell.

gonzo41 6y ago

Don't be evil meh. These are the people who desire to be billionaires, they really do have a devil may care attitude about it all.

BiteCode_dev 6y ago

But the same persons would be scandalized if youtube would censor US politicians propaganda. Because I tell you, looking at Fox News as a European, I can't understand how it qualifies as "news", yet many americans are very attached to it. I'm sure there are plenty of chinese people that feels like Fox News viewers about their own news sources. And they think they are right just as much. And each camp will say "you can't compare us to them because...". It's always the same story: it's not about the truth, it's about power and believes.

marcinzm 6y ago
Google blocks what governments don't want spread since it wants to be on good relations with them. Same way it's blocking covid-19 related things that are deemed fake news. And in Germany it'll block Nazis.
eqdw 6y ago
Fox news is a laughably pathetic excuse for news. But, so are the rest of the major corporate news outlets. In the US, they're all garbage, and Fox isn't any worse than the others. The best way I can describe this is by analogizing to Canada, where I'm from. In Canada, when you watch or read the news (eg CBC), for the most part it just tells you what happened. In the US, when you watch or read the news, for the most part, it tells you how you're supposed to feel. Of course, Fox tells you you're supposed to feel conservative and (eg) NBC tells you you're supposed to feel progressive. But they all do this. They all editorialize. They all try to manipulate your emotions. None of them are willing to just present facts and let you think for yourself.
- BrandoElFollito 6y ago
  This is exactly my feeling with French news as well (the mainstream ones at least). Since one of our national sports is to protest, people complain that "they" (the bad news paper or station) is showing one side only, and that "we" are different. In reality they all tell the same thing, objectively without even editorializing it. So I can read Le Monde, Le Figaro, l'Obs, la Croix or l'Humanité and get the same info. And this is very good.

flr03 6y ago

Things are not black or white, I'm afraid. My comment is not directly related to this matter about the Chinese Gov. Freedom of Speech will always collide with questions of hate speech, massive spread of fake informations, astroturfing... You'll always have to draw a line between moderation and censorship, and yes economical interests will be involved but way before that it's already a complex subject. Things are very much grey.

Natsu 6y ago
China, though, is known to have a large group of astroturfers making pro-CCP comments, not just to demand censoring terms. Also, it seems odd that this would apply to commenters outside of China.

Enginerrrd 6y ago

There's a startup idea... Build a platform for free expression of ideas that caters to a Chinese market and then wait for the Chinese government to pay you to give them censorship privileges.

docmars 6y ago
Brilliant!

Proven 6y ago

> The scary part is that there is a significant contingent of people in tech who believe Youtube is morally justified in doing this because it's a private platform Well, they're wrong. I think most people who don't object to their right to do that think they have right to do it (not that it is the right thing to do, or morally justified).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mrscottson 6y ago

Seems Palmer is spreading conspiracy theories about China while celebrating his company that develops equipment for the US military... sounds like just another case of the "military industrial complex lobbying for war". Retweet a few more retired generals that do the same thing...