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Ask HN: How do you 'practice' getting good at product?

Startup founder here and I'm really struggling doing a good job with product. I aspire to be good at it but I tend to think abstractly, overcomplicate things, etc. Are there books you'd recommend? Courses? Things I could do daily to improve the skill? I ask because most blog posts are vague and unhelpful... Also "just build things" is a great approach that I've been taking but it also takes a long time so I'm wondering how to actually iterate, get feedback, etc. Thank you.

bredren 6y ago
Use more web products and read support forums where users ask how to do stuff. Read complaints about UI in highly upvoted issues of public ticket tracking systems. Practice explaining why a workflow in gmail is great. Or why it sucks out loud. Learn to code. At the very least learn to manipulate static html and css using the console.
- pmthrowawayhi 6y ago
  Thank you! In terms of 'learning to code' -- I'm actually able to build products end-to-end but have the problem that I end up building too quickly, if that makes sense. What do you propose to do from a building/coding perspective here? I love the idea of reading support tickets/requests. That's such a fantastic idea overall! Starting today, thank you.
  - bredren 6y ago
    You’re welcome. If you can build but are building the wrong thing, you need to: - focus on user stories by capturing them from the user with the problem-to-solve. DO not let anyone get between you and the actual user. You need to talk with them yourself and listen to them and teach yourself how to ask them questions and feel their pain. - work on your ego. You should have ego but you should be able to accept feedback. - users want perfection even though you spent so much time building it “this way“ - be willing to build it shitty the first time to get feedback early, or willing to build it nice multiple times but you don’t get to quit working on behavior because you invested the time. - Yes, it matters that the button shows the selected glow and its ugly. Fix it. Yes it matters that the element has an extra refresh blink, go back and prevent that from happening. - Bad product can be death by a million pinpricks (like Paxful Wallet right now) or it entirely lacks a feature to do something at all (like IntelliJ has no option to commit just the open file and no more.). OR BOTH Email me if you want to stay in touch rob@banagale.com
rogerkirkness 6y ago
* Make a list of at least 50 "jobs to be done" your customer has. Force rank by highest to lowest impact on their business outcome. * Write out as much detail as you can about your customer in the form of personas. * Read every support@ email for a day and cluster their problems into groups, build whichever group has the highest frequency. * Read Mythical Man Month, Softwar, Design of Everyday Things * Write up what you think the world will be like in 5 years. How does that connect to what you're building?
- pmthrowawayhi 6y ago
  Thanks so much! Have you seen any good examples of personas that have been published publicly? Would love to know what you consider ideal here. Adding everything else to my TODO list. :)
  - rogerkirkness 6y ago
    There's two levels we use: company and user personas. A company can have many different kinds of users. Here's the headings we have for users: * Name (fake) * Photo (fake) * Type (technical vs. non-technical, power user vs. casual) * Permissions (admin vs. basic) * Responsibilities (job description) * Description (personality and work goals) * Problems (jobs to be done framed as problems) * Goals before they pay (e.g. sales process) * Goals after they pay * Examples (existing customers we have who fit)
pmthrowawayhi 6y ago
Also, one more question: are there good communities you'd recommend around product managers or those focused on building products?
- polote 6y ago
  product hunt and indiehacker

bredren 6y ago

Use more web products and read support forums where users ask how to do stuff. Read complaints about UI in highly upvoted issues of public ticket tracking systems. Practice explaining why a workflow in gmail is great. Or why it sucks out loud. Learn to code. At the very least learn to manipulate static html and css using the console.

pmthrowawayhi 6y ago
Thank you! In terms of 'learning to code' -- I'm actually able to build products end-to-end but have the problem that I end up building too quickly, if that makes sense. What do you propose to do from a building/coding perspective here? I love the idea of reading support tickets/requests. That's such a fantastic idea overall! Starting today, thank you.
- bredren 6y ago
  You’re welcome. If you can build but are building the wrong thing, you need to: - focus on user stories by capturing them from the user with the problem-to-solve. DO not let anyone get between you and the actual user. You need to talk with them yourself and listen to them and teach yourself how to ask them questions and feel their pain. - work on your ego. You should have ego but you should be able to accept feedback. - users want perfection even though you spent so much time building it “this way“ - be willing to build it shitty the first time to get feedback early, or willing to build it nice multiple times but you don’t get to quit working on behavior because you invested the time. - Yes, it matters that the button shows the selected glow and its ugly. Fix it. Yes it matters that the element has an extra refresh blink, go back and prevent that from happening. - Bad product can be death by a million pinpricks (like Paxful Wallet right now) or it entirely lacks a feature to do something at all (like IntelliJ has no option to commit just the open file and no more.). OR BOTH Email me if you want to stay in touch rob@banagale.com

rogerkirkness 6y ago

* Make a list of at least 50 "jobs to be done" your customer has. Force rank by highest to lowest impact on their business outcome. * Write out as much detail as you can about your customer in the form of personas. * Read every support@ email for a day and cluster their problems into groups, build whichever group has the highest frequency. * Read Mythical Man Month, Softwar, Design of Everyday Things * Write up what you think the world will be like in 5 years. How does that connect to what you're building?

pmthrowawayhi 6y ago
Thanks so much! Have you seen any good examples of personas that have been published publicly? Would love to know what you consider ideal here. Adding everything else to my TODO list. :)
- rogerkirkness 6y ago
  There's two levels we use: company and user personas. A company can have many different kinds of users. Here's the headings we have for users: * Name (fake) * Photo (fake) * Type (technical vs. non-technical, power user vs. casual) * Permissions (admin vs. basic) * Responsibilities (job description) * Description (personality and work goals) * Problems (jobs to be done framed as problems) * Goals before they pay (e.g. sales process) * Goals after they pay * Examples (existing customers we have who fit)

pmthrowawayhi 6y ago

Also, one more question: are there good communities you'd recommend around product managers or those focused on building products?

polote 6y ago
product hunt and indiehacker