5 ms·

Yes, pirating media is often easier than buying media that compensates the author and distributor. Didn't we all know that? DRM and other protection instrument

by altacc 6y ago

Yes, pirating media is often easier than buying media that compensates the author and distributor. Didn't we all know that? DRM and other protection instruments are widespread in digital media and I don't think a good answer to this problem has been found yet, which addresses ease of access & use and also adequate compensation to creators. We still want an equivalent to physical ownership of media but that's applying old thinking to a modern technology, so frustration is understandable. Truly owning digital media is increasingly rare concept. Being able to sharing individual media items more so. Typically we merely rent temporary access through a defined ecosystem. I don't know what the answer is, beyond acknowledging the limitations of both physical and digital media and not expecting the best of both worlds to be possible.

Nasrudith 6y ago
It is essentially a proverbial greed trap the same as the music industry encountered already. They can in fact get more but they need to let go of the impossible first. DRM asks for the product to be viewable to the end user while not being copyable when fundamentally being viewable is being copyable. It is a hint of a fundamentally insane world view.
clarry 6y ago
> Yes, pirating media is often easier than buying media that compensates the author and distributor. Didn't we all know that? We all know that it doesn't have to be that way. > DRM and other protection instruments are widespread in digital media and I don't think a good answer to this problem has been found yet DRM is the easiest of problems to solve: just remove it.
- ImprobableTruth 6y ago
  Alright, I'm interested: what's your business model that can compete with Z-lib?
  - clarry 6y ago
    Take a look at digital distribution stores for games that give people a fuss-free experience. Access a well organized catalog & help pages, discussion forums, wikis, etc. Keep track of your library, always get latest version, download anytime anywhere in the world from fast servers any number of times. That really made a huge impact on game piracy. Now contrast the experience with something like Zlib.. oh hey: https://i.imgur.com/494nZjd.png https://i.imgur.com/494nZjd.png What a typical "illegal download site" that tries to bombard you with ads, puts a bunch of silly restrictions on you and then starts to nag for money to lift those restrictions.. what a pain.
    - ImprobableTruth 6y ago
      Books aren't games. Books have a way smaller file size, so fast downloads aren't as attractive. They aren't software, so there is a severely reduced security risk. Something like offering the 'newest version' just doesn't apply, most books have a few errata at most. If you think there is some equivalent service you could provide for books, I think you have to give some examples specific to books. In regards to organized catalog: why wouldn't people use the catalog and then just pirate it anyway? And are you really arguing that 5 books a day or 1 MB per second (when most books are less than 10 MB) are a limiting restriction and that people would actually buy more than 5 books a day? Hell, there are even other sites without these restrictions. Genesis library as far as I know only shows ads. If you think this is even remotely a pain, I think you're pretty out of touch with the average consumer.
      - clarry 6y ago
        Books are different, therefore you can't offer people an easy, simple, convenient ebook store that doesn't screw you over with excess prices and proprietary windows-only software and DRM? Yeah, with that kind of attitude it's kinda hard to compete with Z-lib or whatever. Just like with games. Torrenting used to be too damn convenient compared to all the legal offering, because the legal offers were just crap. The problem isn't that illegal channels are too easy, the problem is that the legal channels are (seemingly deliberately) terrible. That's exactly what prompted the blog post we're commenting on, and that's what also keeps me from buying e-books.
Sargos 6y ago
>Truly owning digital media is increasingly rare concept. Being able to sharing individual media items more so. Typically we merely rent temporary access through a defined ecosystem. I don't know what the answer is, beyond acknowledging the limitations of both physical and digital media and not expecting the best of both worlds to be possible. I think within 5-10 years digital media like ebooks, games, movies etc will transition to being represented by ERC-721 tokens which brings with it the benefits of physical media (permanent ownership, sharability, etc) while also being easy to store, transport, read digital items. The main benefit is that you can buy your ebook/game/movie in one store/ecosystem and even if that system goes out of business your purchase will still be valid at other stores and platforms. You own the item itself and are not renting it from a certain store.
- ImprobableTruth 6y ago
  Why would anyone want to sell their books under this model? There's virtually no reason for anyone to buy from you rather than a buy a 'used' book.
  - Sargos 6y ago
    Stores sell commodity items all the time. There are a large range of products that are identical in price amongst all of the stores today. This even exists to an extent today with video games with Steam allowing you to purchase gift copies and sell them to others as a later time. Humble Bundle also allows games to be bought and sold to an extent. If you search there are lots of sites out there that sell Steam keys too. Steam doesn't just compete on price, they offer unique features such as their community features, existing userbase, and easy to use item markets as well. There are ways existing merchants entice you to buy commodity products today even if they have to sell them at the same price as other stores. This model will likely be more fair to the content creator as they will likely get a larger portion of the profits, thought this is completely up in the air. An interesting use case for selling modern digital commodities are things like $SOCKS (https://unisocks.exchange/ https://unisocks.exchange/) and Saint Fame (https://www.saintfame.com/ https://www.saintfame.com/). The price is dictated by the market itself instead of individual sellers.
xena 6y ago
The classiest move is to purchase a copy on a DRM riddled service like Amazon and then just pirate the eBook.
- whyoh 6y ago
  Or rather just give the money to the author directly. Giving it to Amazon effectively means you support what they're doing.

by altacc 6y ago

Nasrudith 6y ago

It is essentially a proverbial greed trap the same as the music industry encountered already. They can in fact get more but they need to let go of the impossible first. DRM asks for the product to be viewable to the end user while not being copyable when fundamentally being viewable is being copyable. It is a hint of a fundamentally insane world view.

clarry 6y ago

> Yes, pirating media is often easier than buying media that compensates the author and distributor. Didn't we all know that? We all know that it doesn't have to be that way. > DRM and other protection instruments are widespread in digital media and I don't think a good answer to this problem has been found yet DRM is the easiest of problems to solve: just remove it.

ImprobableTruth 6y ago
Alright, I'm interested: what's your business model that can compete with Z-lib?
- clarry 6y ago
  Take a look at digital distribution stores for games that give people a fuss-free experience. Access a well organized catalog & help pages, discussion forums, wikis, etc. Keep track of your library, always get latest version, download anytime anywhere in the world from fast servers any number of times. That really made a huge impact on game piracy. Now contrast the experience with something like Zlib.. oh hey: https://i.imgur.com/494nZjd.png https://i.imgur.com/494nZjd.png What a typical "illegal download site" that tries to bombard you with ads, puts a bunch of silly restrictions on you and then starts to nag for money to lift those restrictions.. what a pain.
  - ImprobableTruth 6y ago
    Books aren't games. Books have a way smaller file size, so fast downloads aren't as attractive. They aren't software, so there is a severely reduced security risk. Something like offering the 'newest version' just doesn't apply, most books have a few errata at most. If you think there is some equivalent service you could provide for books, I think you have to give some examples specific to books. In regards to organized catalog: why wouldn't people use the catalog and then just pirate it anyway? And are you really arguing that 5 books a day or 1 MB per second (when most books are less than 10 MB) are a limiting restriction and that people would actually buy more than 5 books a day? Hell, there are even other sites without these restrictions. Genesis library as far as I know only shows ads. If you think this is even remotely a pain, I think you're pretty out of touch with the average consumer.
    - clarry 6y ago
      Books are different, therefore you can't offer people an easy, simple, convenient ebook store that doesn't screw you over with excess prices and proprietary windows-only software and DRM? Yeah, with that kind of attitude it's kinda hard to compete with Z-lib or whatever. Just like with games. Torrenting used to be too damn convenient compared to all the legal offering, because the legal offers were just crap. The problem isn't that illegal channels are too easy, the problem is that the legal channels are (seemingly deliberately) terrible. That's exactly what prompted the blog post we're commenting on, and that's what also keeps me from buying e-books.

Sargos 6y ago

>Truly owning digital media is increasingly rare concept. Being able to sharing individual media items more so. Typically we merely rent temporary access through a defined ecosystem. I don't know what the answer is, beyond acknowledging the limitations of both physical and digital media and not expecting the best of both worlds to be possible. I think within 5-10 years digital media like ebooks, games, movies etc will transition to being represented by ERC-721 tokens which brings with it the benefits of physical media (permanent ownership, sharability, etc) while also being easy to store, transport, read digital items. The main benefit is that you can buy your ebook/game/movie in one store/ecosystem and even if that system goes out of business your purchase will still be valid at other stores and platforms. You own the item itself and are not renting it from a certain store.

ImprobableTruth 6y ago
Why would anyone want to sell their books under this model? There's virtually no reason for anyone to buy from you rather than a buy a 'used' book.
- Sargos 6y ago
  Stores sell commodity items all the time. There are a large range of products that are identical in price amongst all of the stores today. This even exists to an extent today with video games with Steam allowing you to purchase gift copies and sell them to others as a later time. Humble Bundle also allows games to be bought and sold to an extent. If you search there are lots of sites out there that sell Steam keys too. Steam doesn't just compete on price, they offer unique features such as their community features, existing userbase, and easy to use item markets as well. There are ways existing merchants entice you to buy commodity products today even if they have to sell them at the same price as other stores. This model will likely be more fair to the content creator as they will likely get a larger portion of the profits, thought this is completely up in the air. An interesting use case for selling modern digital commodities are things like $SOCKS (https://unisocks.exchange/ https://unisocks.exchange/) and Saint Fame (https://www.saintfame.com/ https://www.saintfame.com/). The price is dictated by the market itself instead of individual sellers.

xena 6y ago

The classiest move is to purchase a copy on a DRM riddled service like Amazon and then just pirate the eBook.

whyoh 6y ago
Or rather just give the money to the author directly. Giving it to Amazon effectively means you support what they're doing.