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> I literally have zero memory of how we used to build forms in the pre-React times. This is honestly quite a disturbing trend with a lot of front-end develope

> I literally have zero memory of how we used to build forms in the pre-React times. This is honestly quite a disturbing trend with a lot of front-end developers these days. I recently asked a front-end dev why they chose React for a simple app over simple server-side templating, he's reaction was "we don't need SEO, so why do we need React SSR", like how does that argument even make sense. They seem to have forgotten you can build stuff without a JS framework. The default has to be SPA + API, even when you don't actually need it.

joekrill 6y ago
> I recently asked a front-end dev why they chose React for a simple app over simple server-side templating I don't really get this argument. What makes "simple server-side templating" better than React components? I'd argue that these React components effectively are templates. If someone is proficient in React, why are we suggesting they have to learn some other random templating language? Not to mention deal with additional things like file organization, transpiling, etc.
- ryanbrunner 6y ago
  If the argument is "what makes ERB / JST / some other templating language better than React for server-side rendering" then sure, there's not really much difference. What I suspect was the intent of the original question was "why does a simple app need to be an SPA with an API on the backend", which I do feel is something that adds significant complexity to any project. It's sometimes worth it, but I'll never be convinced that having to maintain an API alongside client-side rendering is faster or easier than a traditional server-rendered application.
  - woutr_be 6y ago
    Complexity is one thing, but more importantly is choosing the right tools for the job. There definitely are cases where you want SPA + API, but this wasn’t one of them.
- woutr_be 6y ago
  The point was that they choose React by default instead of thinking about other tools which might be better suited. There was no reason to make this an SPA, they didn’t even consider not using React. I agree about learning new things, but this isn’t a new language or syntax. At best you spend 10 minutes at the documentation and you know everything you need to know.
vekker 6y ago
Is it really? You might as well say it's been a disturbing trend that developers aren't familiar with assembly language anymore. As abstraction on top of abstraction is created, it becomes easier and easier to write software, so naturally there are now more frontend devs who aren't familiar with web dev basics. And if all you have is a hammer, every problem will look like a nail. Similar trends happen for backend devs and in devops. Is that really a problem? Only if you are a company that hired them with different expectations.
- carapace 6y ago
  > it's been a disturbing trend that developers aren't familiar with assembly language anymore. That is a disturbing trend.
- woutr_be 6y ago
  React solves multiple problems, sure. But I would say that templating isn’t one of them, and it definetly isn’t an abstraction to something more obscure. You have this on the backend and devops side as well, but I would argue that most competent developers there know that there are other solutions. Maybe my experience is more skewed towards front-end developers, but I would make the same statement about backend devs if they instantly choose one technology over the other, simply because that’s all they know. (Not even because they can defend that technology with reason)

joekrill 6y ago

> I recently asked a front-end dev why they chose React for a simple app over simple server-side templating I don't really get this argument. What makes "simple server-side templating" better than React components? I'd argue that these React components effectively are templates. If someone is proficient in React, why are we suggesting they have to learn some other random templating language? Not to mention deal with additional things like file organization, transpiling, etc.

ryanbrunner 6y ago
If the argument is "what makes ERB / JST / some other templating language better than React for server-side rendering" then sure, there's not really much difference. What I suspect was the intent of the original question was "why does a simple app need to be an SPA with an API on the backend", which I do feel is something that adds significant complexity to any project. It's sometimes worth it, but I'll never be convinced that having to maintain an API alongside client-side rendering is faster or easier than a traditional server-rendered application.
- woutr_be 6y ago
  Complexity is one thing, but more importantly is choosing the right tools for the job. There definitely are cases where you want SPA + API, but this wasn’t one of them.
woutr_be 6y ago
The point was that they choose React by default instead of thinking about other tools which might be better suited. There was no reason to make this an SPA, they didn’t even consider not using React. I agree about learning new things, but this isn’t a new language or syntax. At best you spend 10 minutes at the documentation and you know everything you need to know.

vekker 6y ago

Is it really? You might as well say it's been a disturbing trend that developers aren't familiar with assembly language anymore. As abstraction on top of abstraction is created, it becomes easier and easier to write software, so naturally there are now more frontend devs who aren't familiar with web dev basics. And if all you have is a hammer, every problem will look like a nail. Similar trends happen for backend devs and in devops. Is that really a problem? Only if you are a company that hired them with different expectations.

carapace 6y ago
> it's been a disturbing trend that developers aren't familiar with assembly language anymore. That is a disturbing trend.
woutr_be 6y ago
React solves multiple problems, sure. But I would say that templating isn’t one of them, and it definetly isn’t an abstraction to something more obscure. You have this on the backend and devops side as well, but I would argue that most competent developers there know that there are other solutions. Maybe my experience is more skewed towards front-end developers, but I would make the same statement about backend devs if they instantly choose one technology over the other, simply because that’s all they know. (Not even because they can defend that technology with reason)