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> - Phones do not come with Google Services Framework, so the barrier to develop a networked app is higher. Looking at f-droid: hobbyists seem to do just fine

by swiley 6y ago

> - Phones do not come with Google Services Framework, so the barrier to develop a networked app is higher. Looking at f-droid: hobbyists seem to do just fine without google play services. I feel like this gives you a business advantage rather than a technical one.

duxup 6y ago
f-droid is a horrible experience though IMO. I go searching and I can't figure out what some of the apps even "DO", others are "Here is this app, you need to install these other things too to make it work, also it only works with X, so maybe it will work for you I duno....". Now I get why it is the way it is, I don't expect much more from folks putting out software for me like that, but it's a terrible user experience.
- swiley 6y ago
  >f-droid is a horrible experience though IMO This has very little to do with what I said (arguing some library doesn’t make things easier) but ok. >I go searching and I can't figure out what some of the apps even "DO", It’s been a couple years but I don’t remember the play store being different. >Here is this app, you need to install these other things too to make it work Like the Termux API app needing termux? That’s the only one I remember being like that. Most of the apps I used were self contained. Do you have an example? From memory F-droid was much better than google play except for the lower selection but it has been a while.
- stallmanite 6y ago
  Conversely I always look on FDroid first because for me the quality of apps is higher and the level of shady BS is minimal. I only resort to the Play store if there’s no open source alternative.
- 4cao 6y ago
  > f-droid is a horrible experience though IMO. It's not good for app discovery. You already need to know what you are looking for. Other than that, most of the time it works fine. In other words, it's a bit like Amazon.
- LockAndLol 6y ago
  > f-droid is a horrible experience though IMO. What are you installing to make it a bad user experience? I don't have google services (no google account) at all, only use F-Droid and Aurora store and haven't any problems. Even convinced a friend to go the same route with minimal handholding and they aren't technically inclined - no problems.
4cao 6y ago
People who don't run Play services by choice will typically use MicroG [1], which still uses Google infrastructure. F-Droid is doing fine but mostly with a certain kind of apps that either run entirely on the device, or connect to third-party networks via more or less established protocols like IMAP, XMPP, OpenDAV, etc. Google provides Cloud Messaging, Firebase, etc. free of charge. Everything can be worked around with enough money thrown at it of course but choices like this tip the scale in favor of going for a mini-app instead of a standalone one. 1. https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Not all users who eschew Google Play services are using MicroG. I would be surprised if even a majority were. These days, the sole remaining large community for bare Android is Lineage, and not only does it ship without MicroG, any discussion of MicroG is banned on its channels. I have set up Android phones with Lineage for several relatives, and if the user is comfortable doing online banking through the browser instead of a bank-provided app, then there is really no need for Google Play services or the MicroG substitute. Whatsapp runs fine without Play services, and in my region OSM-based maps are a viable competitor to Google Maps.
dehrmann 6y ago
Remember the Fire Phone? Android without Google didn't go so well for Amazon.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  The Fire Phone had other issues. It was a new player in a crowded market and had no reason to exist. It had one gimmick, but it was forgettable enough that I can’t even remember what it was right now, but I remember it was dumb. Google themselves has struggled in this market: see the Nexus line.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    Parallax screen tilt
    - toast0 6y ago
      And swipe up for back, with just a home button. And that awful launcher.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    Outdated hardware too.

by swiley 6y ago

duxup 6y ago

f-droid is a horrible experience though IMO. I go searching and I can't figure out what some of the apps even "DO", others are "Here is this app, you need to install these other things too to make it work, also it only works with X, so maybe it will work for you I duno....". Now I get why it is the way it is, I don't expect much more from folks putting out software for me like that, but it's a terrible user experience.

swiley 6y ago
>f-droid is a horrible experience though IMO This has very little to do with what I said (arguing some library doesn’t make things easier) but ok. >I go searching and I can't figure out what some of the apps even "DO", It’s been a couple years but I don’t remember the play store being different. >Here is this app, you need to install these other things too to make it work Like the Termux API app needing termux? That’s the only one I remember being like that. Most of the apps I used were self contained. Do you have an example? From memory F-droid was much better than google play except for the lower selection but it has been a while.
stallmanite 6y ago
Conversely I always look on FDroid first because for me the quality of apps is higher and the level of shady BS is minimal. I only resort to the Play store if there’s no open source alternative.
4cao 6y ago
> f-droid is a horrible experience though IMO. It's not good for app discovery. You already need to know what you are looking for. Other than that, most of the time it works fine. In other words, it's a bit like Amazon.
LockAndLol 6y ago
> f-droid is a horrible experience though IMO. What are you installing to make it a bad user experience? I don't have google services (no google account) at all, only use F-Droid and Aurora store and haven't any problems. Even convinced a friend to go the same route with minimal handholding and they aren't technically inclined - no problems.

4cao 6y ago

People who don't run Play services by choice will typically use MicroG [1], which still uses Google infrastructure. F-Droid is doing fine but mostly with a certain kind of apps that either run entirely on the device, or connect to third-party networks via more or less established protocols like IMAP, XMPP, OpenDAV, etc. Google provides Cloud Messaging, Firebase, etc. free of charge. Everything can be worked around with enough money thrown at it of course but choices like this tip the scale in favor of going for a mini-app instead of a standalone one. 1. https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Not all users who eschew Google Play services are using MicroG. I would be surprised if even a majority were. These days, the sole remaining large community for bare Android is Lineage, and not only does it ship without MicroG, any discussion of MicroG is banned on its channels. I have set up Android phones with Lineage for several relatives, and if the user is comfortable doing online banking through the browser instead of a bank-provided app, then there is really no need for Google Play services or the MicroG substitute. Whatsapp runs fine without Play services, and in my region OSM-based maps are a viable competitor to Google Maps.

dehrmann 6y ago

Remember the Fire Phone? Android without Google didn't go so well for Amazon.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
The Fire Phone had other issues. It was a new player in a crowded market and had no reason to exist. It had one gimmick, but it was forgettable enough that I can’t even remember what it was right now, but I remember it was dumb. Google themselves has struggled in this market: see the Nexus line.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Parallax screen tilt
  - toast0 6y ago
    And swipe up for back, with just a home button. And that awful launcher.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Outdated hardware too.