6 ms·

I don't know why people do this. In more complex areas of programming the code and tooling are simpler. It seems like any ecosystem just fills up to the certain

I don't know why people do this. In more complex areas of programming the code and tooling are simpler. It seems like any ecosystem just fills up to the certain level of complexity regardless of the complexity of the original task at hand.

Etheryte 6y ago
Since you mentioned complexity, past a certain level of application complexity, you realistically can't do a linear list of Javascript files that you import on the page in order. When you have hundreds of views, you don't want to manually go and figure out what each of them needs as prerequisites. Circular dependencies are annoying when you do it by hand but practically trivial with a packer as long as they're logically sound. Inversion of Control. On-demand loading. These are all problems that have been previously solved by hand, but when you don't want to solve these prerequisite problems before your actual business (or hacking) problems, you build tools to do it for you.
- de_watcher 6y ago
  "Can't do a linear list of Javascript files that you import on the page in order" - sounds like a problem that a BCPL developer has stumbled upon 50 years ago while writing his include directives.
osdiab 6y ago
If web programmers had the choice to install an arbitrary language's runtime in users' browsers, they would. But users have disparate browsers with disparate JS implementations, so if you want to code in a sane language with consistent behavior, you'll need to transpile and polyfill it. You can't just distribute arbitrary binaries to users on the web, so web developers have to deal with a layer of complexity that other programs don't have to. That said, maybe WebAssembly will change this story.
- de_watcher 6y ago
  > web developers have to deal with a layer of complexity that other programs don't have to yep, other programs totally don't need to deal with different OS, graphics APIs, GPU driverstacks and hardware architectures.
  - exogen 6y ago
    Those are all runtime concerns. They don't affect the literal syntax that you write, as is the case with JavaScript. You can't feature-detect syntax. Instead your entire program will just fail to parse.
    - de_watcher 6y ago
      So like shaders?

Etheryte 6y ago

Since you mentioned complexity, past a certain level of application complexity, you realistically can't do a linear list of Javascript files that you import on the page in order. When you have hundreds of views, you don't want to manually go and figure out what each of them needs as prerequisites. Circular dependencies are annoying when you do it by hand but practically trivial with a packer as long as they're logically sound. Inversion of Control. On-demand loading. These are all problems that have been previously solved by hand, but when you don't want to solve these prerequisite problems before your actual business (or hacking) problems, you build tools to do it for you.

de_watcher 6y ago
"Can't do a linear list of Javascript files that you import on the page in order" - sounds like a problem that a BCPL developer has stumbled upon 50 years ago while writing his include directives.

osdiab 6y ago

If web programmers had the choice to install an arbitrary language's runtime in users' browsers, they would. But users have disparate browsers with disparate JS implementations, so if you want to code in a sane language with consistent behavior, you'll need to transpile and polyfill it. You can't just distribute arbitrary binaries to users on the web, so web developers have to deal with a layer of complexity that other programs don't have to. That said, maybe WebAssembly will change this story.

de_watcher 6y ago
> web developers have to deal with a layer of complexity that other programs don't have to yep, other programs totally don't need to deal with different OS, graphics APIs, GPU driverstacks and hardware architectures.
- exogen 6y ago
  Those are all runtime concerns. They don't affect the literal syntax that you write, as is the case with JavaScript. You can't feature-detect syntax. Instead your entire program will just fail to parse.
  - de_watcher 6y ago
    So like shaders?