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The root comment was arguing that British imperialism and the opium wars led China to go from "capitalism to communism" but it's not reasonable to describe the

The root comment was arguing that British imperialism and the opium wars led China to go from "capitalism to communism" but it's not reasonable to describe the system before British imperialism as "capitalism". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23302410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23302410 The end of the Canton System after the first Opium War doesn't have any bearing on what the economics were like in the time that preceded it.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
>it's not reasonable to describe the system before British imperialism as "capitalism". That root comment is sharing an interesting tidbit from the article, which is about the Chinese economy during the "Century of Humiliation."
- solidsnack9000 6y ago
  It's the root comment's claim, that British imperialism pushed China from capitalism to communism, that is confused; not the tidbit. Mercantilism is not capitalism. It is another form of subordinated private property rights.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    Everyone agrees the Opium War period was mercantilism, they are discussing the post Opium War period.
    - solidsnack9000 6y ago
      The root comment actually cites a section describing the First Opium War, and then says that British imperialism pushed China from capitalism to communism. Although they do not say specifically say that the period before the First Opium War is what they mean, they don't offer other clues as to the time period.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        >do not say specifically say that the period before the First Opium War is what they mean,they don't offer other clues as to the time period. The post is a reaction to the article, describing how the tea trade led to a capitalist system which later fell to Communism. There's no ambiguity.
        solidsnack9000 6y ago
        So in your view, there was a transition from mercantilism to capitalism following the First Opium War? And then a transition to communism thereafter?
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        It's not really "my view," but I read a rather convincing argument for it. https://aeon.co/essays/the-china-tea-trade-was-a-paradox-of-global-capitalism https://aeon.co/essays/the-china-tea-trade-was-a-paradox-of-...
        solidsnack9000 6y ago
        It doesn't make sense to say that British imperialism led to communism from capitalism, if the starting point without British imperialism was mercantilism.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        >Only with the rise and victory of the Communist Party in 1949, the nationalist lore goes, could the original shame of military defeat and colonialism be redeemed
        solidsnack9000 6y ago
        That's how the nationalist lore goes...but what makes it the truth?

boomboomsubban 6y ago

>it's not reasonable to describe the system before British imperialism as "capitalism". That root comment is sharing an interesting tidbit from the article, which is about the Chinese economy during the "Century of Humiliation."

solidsnack9000 6y ago
It's the root comment's claim, that British imperialism pushed China from capitalism to communism, that is confused; not the tidbit. Mercantilism is not capitalism. It is another form of subordinated private property rights.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  Everyone agrees the Opium War period was mercantilism, they are discussing the post Opium War period.
  - solidsnack9000 6y ago
    The root comment actually cites a section describing the First Opium War, and then says that British imperialism pushed China from capitalism to communism. Although they do not say specifically say that the period before the First Opium War is what they mean, they don't offer other clues as to the time period.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      >do not say specifically say that the period before the First Opium War is what they mean,they don't offer other clues as to the time period. The post is a reaction to the article, describing how the tea trade led to a capitalist system which later fell to Communism. There's no ambiguity.
      - solidsnack9000 6y ago
        So in your view, there was a transition from mercantilism to capitalism following the First Opium War? And then a transition to communism thereafter?
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        It's not really "my view," but I read a rather convincing argument for it. https://aeon.co/essays/the-china-tea-trade-was-a-paradox-of-global-capitalism https://aeon.co/essays/the-china-tea-trade-was-a-paradox-of-...
        solidsnack9000 6y ago
        It doesn't make sense to say that British imperialism led to communism from capitalism, if the starting point without British imperialism was mercantilism.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        >Only with the rise and victory of the Communist Party in 1949, the nationalist lore goes, could the original shame of military defeat and colonialism be redeemed
        solidsnack9000 6y ago
        That's how the nationalist lore goes...but what makes it the truth?