6 ms·

I'm having a hard time reconciling patio11's article with more recent reports of people walking 60km to get home, all food being gone from all stores, people li

by mrshoe 16y ago

I'm having a hard time reconciling patio11's article with more recent reports of people walking 60km to get home, all food being gone from all stores, people living in Apple stores, and the government ordering a 30km evacuation zone around nuclear power plants. Maybe his point was "it could have been a lot worse", but I read it more like "everything went as planned and life went on without missing more than a few beats". The latter certainly doesn't seem to be the case.

anonymous246 16y ago
I read his post as being about the quake. with the tsunami, all bets were off. i suspect what you're describing is the aftermath of the tsunami, not the quake.
blantonl 16y ago
One thing patio11's article did was to dispell many misconceptions that Americans have about Japan. It is easy to claim that hindsight is 20/20, but his post was very relevant and on target considering the circumstances.
panarky 16y ago
patio11 is undoubtedly correct that 'Japanese does not have a word for excessive preparation'. But no matter how excessively prepared for a 7.0 or a 7.5, it may not be possible to prepare for the utter destruction of a 9.0 followed immediately by a tsunami.
- bl4k 16y ago
  Is it true that there is no japanese word for 'looting'. This all came up from a joke, we were watching the news broadcasts, and my friend said 'you know there is no looting in Japan' and I said 'that is because they don't have a word for it'. I ended up looking it up, and it seems true - can you confirm?
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - Paulomus 16y ago
    略奪 ryakudatsu edit: link to definition - http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/je2/79721/m1u/%E7%95%A5%E5%A5%AA/ http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/je2/79721/m1u/%E7%95%A5%E5%...
mattm 16y ago
You can't reconcile it because they are two different things. I read it a couple days ago but I believe the points you refer to were all centered in Tokyo. I was in Tokyo for this past weekend and the metro was shut down Friday afternoon which made it extremely difficult, and in some cases impossible, for people to get home after work. In Tokyo and the rest of Japan outside of the affected area, yes life has gone on with just some minor interruptions. That definitely isn't the case for those in the disaster area.
blrgeek 16y ago
Please read patio11's article again! The nuclear power plant is 160mi from Tokyo. You'd think that there's some difference in the conditions across that distance? When the 2004 tsunami happened in South India, a town on the coast would be devastated, while a village 2km inland would be completely unaffected. From this Google Maps link to driving between http://bit.ly/g4hfPm http://bit.ly/g4hfPm Tokyo & Okuma you can see that the road runs along the coast and might have been hit by the Tsunami, causing lack of supplies. So most likely explanation 1. On the coast, esp. in the Miyagi province, a lot of things are screwed. It could have been much worse if there was not the Japanese emergency training/response. 2. 5km inside the coast-line, there will be earthquake damage, no tsunami damage, and life will be near normal by now. [edited for grammar/formatting]
1331 16y ago
I am located in Hashimoto, Kanagawa (search for 神奈川県相模原市橋本 in Google Maps if you want to see where this is) and may be able to provide some insight. Japan is a relatively small country, but the current atmosphere is considerably different in different locations. My experience near Tokyo has been quite interesting, but it is nothing compared to the disaster that has unfolded north of here. For those close to the big earthquake and tsunami, life has been completely changed if they are lucky enough that it was not ended. Life is nowhere near back to normal where I live. It is surreal: with trains stopped and few cars on the road, the neighborhood has become very quiet, with the exception of public announcements through loudspeakers and "incoming quake" alerts through mobile phones. The rolling blackouts are likely a significant factor of the atmosphere. Some train lines in my area were stopped completely while others are only stopped when the power is out. The queues of people for trains have been very long, so it is difficult to commute. As a result, most stores in my area are completely closed. Some stores open when electricity is on, but many shelves are empty of goods that are in demand. Other stores have special security to allow small groups of shoppers (at a time) through a fence into the entranceway in order to purchase in-demand goods, while entrance to the actual store is blocked. Most apartments require power to pump water, so our water goes out as well when the power is off. With strong earthquakes continuing to roll in and blackouts scheduled for some time, I do not know how long it will take for things to return to normal here. I do not have direct experience of what it is like where patio11 is at, but without the rolling blackouts, I am sure that the atmosphere is very different. I have more that I would like to say, but this comment is long enough already, and my power is scheduled to turn off in five minutes.
- aik 16y ago
  Are the rolling blackouts happening all over Tokyo? Are people in Tokyo going to work and are kids going to their schools now just like before? Good luck to you.
  - bdonlan 16y ago
    The central part of tokyo (ward 23) is (with a few very small exceptios) exempt from blackouts, due to having a lot of critical government infrastructure on its grid. Most central tokyo trains have multiple power sources, and are running all day with only slightly reduced schedules (they seem to be gradually ramping back up to full service; some, including the Yamanote line, are already back to the normal schedule). Trains to outlying areas often have to suspend service during blackout times, which rotate each day. Most Shinkansen lines are back up to some degree - some running full schedules - with the exception of lines heading northeast closer to the epicenter; those lines will need major track and station repair. A lot of people are staying home to help reduce load on the transportation and electrical infrastructure. Once the power plants start to come up (and people stop hoarding groceries), things should start to approach normality in the Tokyo area at least. Areas closer to the epicenter will need more rebuilding, however.
patio11 16y ago
Outside of the immediate disaster zones, I think "everything went as planned and life went on without missing more than a few beats" is substantially accurate. The context for my post was originally I got literally in excess of a hundred people who thought I might be dead trying to reach me because of the reporting, despite me being several hundred miles away. I have been talking to news reporters the last few days (whose Rolodex of English-speaking Japanese people is apparently non-existent, so I'm the next best thing) and its like we're living on two different planets: "Can you comment on the food shortages you're experiencing in Fugu?" "Fugu is a poisonous fish. I live in Gifu. There is no food shortage here. I just got a pizza delivered despite there being an earthquake in the middle of the delivery." "I thought the quake was days ago?" "Not that earthquake, the Shizuoka earthquake, at 10:30 PM last night." "Shizuoka... is that by the nuclear power plants??" I nearly exploded. Halfway between Tokyo and Nagoya, cut off power to a lot of people, and would have been virtually unremarkable except that it happened this week. This is a disaster localized to a small portion of a big country. That was certainly not a given: Tokyo could be burning right now, and the situation at the nuclear plant which literally had a tsunami hit it could be the situation at every nuclear and chemical plant in the country. (Or the plant could have suffered immediate, catastrophic failure, rather than immediate work-as-designed followed by a deterioration which gave us enough time to evacuate everyone. Food distribution and trains got a hiccup in Tokyo -- they're now operating normally. (They're decidedly not normal in the towns destroyed in Miyagi, obviously. 500,000 people were displaced at least temporarily.) People do not live in Apple stores. They stayed there one night while waiting for train service to be restored. If you're worried about displaced folks, look to the evacuation sites like e.g. schools in Miyagi, which is where folks who don't have a home to go back to are staying temporarily.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  My impression is simply that people don't know Japanese geography, which isn't all together too surprising. There's no reason a person should know the geography of Japan any better than the geography of Uzbekistan if he or she doesn't have a specific tie to either country. They just hear "earthquake in Japan" and ask the people who live in Japan if they're doing alright. My brother lives in Auckland. We had a lot of people asking if he was OK after the quake in Christchurch. They are ~700 miles away on different islands, so he wasn't affected at all by the quake there, but we patiently explained this. It seems silly to get so haughty when people are expressing genuine concern for your well-being.
reneherse 16y ago
Patio11's post both shed light on facts that were receiving little to no news coverage shortly after the main disaster and gave a valuable personal perspective on the unique ethos and role of preparedness and engineering in Japanese society. Sometimes when people write from a contrarian or polemical viewpoint, overstatement occurs in the effort to create balance. I can certainly understand if Patrick's case was slightly overstated. The situation has evolved since his article was posted, but his overall point of the success of Japan's preparedness remains true and still under-reported. Remember, this earthquake was one of the most powerful in history[1]. I think for many it's difficult to imagine just how much worse the devastation could have been from this compound disaster. I shudder to think of the physical destruction and social chaos that would ensue should such an earthquake and tsunami strike my beloved Bay Area; compared to Japan in this context our social fabric is a very loose weave. [1] http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes
jonah 16y ago
This piece gives some perspective on the tsunami's effects in small coastal villages: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16scene.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16scene.html

by mrshoe 16y ago

anonymous246 16y ago

I read his post as being about the quake. with the tsunami, all bets were off. i suspect what you're describing is the aftermath of the tsunami, not the quake.

blantonl 16y ago

One thing patio11's article did was to dispell many misconceptions that Americans have about Japan. It is easy to claim that hindsight is 20/20, but his post was very relevant and on target considering the circumstances.

panarky 16y ago

patio11 is undoubtedly correct that 'Japanese does not have a word for excessive preparation'. But no matter how excessively prepared for a 7.0 or a 7.5, it may not be possible to prepare for the utter destruction of a 9.0 followed immediately by a tsunami.

bl4k 16y ago
Is it true that there is no japanese word for 'looting'. This all came up from a joke, we were watching the news broadcasts, and my friend said 'you know there is no looting in Japan' and I said 'that is because they don't have a word for it'. I ended up looking it up, and it seems true - can you confirm?
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- Paulomus 16y ago
  略奪 ryakudatsu edit: link to definition - http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/je2/79721/m1u/%E7%95%A5%E5%A5%AA/ http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/je2/79721/m1u/%E7%95%A5%E5%...

mattm 16y ago

You can't reconcile it because they are two different things. I read it a couple days ago but I believe the points you refer to were all centered in Tokyo. I was in Tokyo for this past weekend and the metro was shut down Friday afternoon which made it extremely difficult, and in some cases impossible, for people to get home after work. In Tokyo and the rest of Japan outside of the affected area, yes life has gone on with just some minor interruptions. That definitely isn't the case for those in the disaster area.

blrgeek 16y ago

Please read patio11's article again! The nuclear power plant is 160mi from Tokyo. You'd think that there's some difference in the conditions across that distance? When the 2004 tsunami happened in South India, a town on the coast would be devastated, while a village 2km inland would be completely unaffected. From this Google Maps link to driving between http://bit.ly/g4hfPm http://bit.ly/g4hfPm Tokyo & Okuma you can see that the road runs along the coast and might have been hit by the Tsunami, causing lack of supplies. So most likely explanation 1. On the coast, esp. in the Miyagi province, a lot of things are screwed. It could have been much worse if there was not the Japanese emergency training/response. 2. 5km inside the coast-line, there will be earthquake damage, no tsunami damage, and life will be near normal by now. [edited for grammar/formatting]

1331 16y ago

I am located in Hashimoto, Kanagawa (search for 神奈川県相模原市橋本 in Google Maps if you want to see where this is) and may be able to provide some insight. Japan is a relatively small country, but the current atmosphere is considerably different in different locations. My experience near Tokyo has been quite interesting, but it is nothing compared to the disaster that has unfolded north of here. For those close to the big earthquake and tsunami, life has been completely changed if they are lucky enough that it was not ended. Life is nowhere near back to normal where I live. It is surreal: with trains stopped and few cars on the road, the neighborhood has become very quiet, with the exception of public announcements through loudspeakers and "incoming quake" alerts through mobile phones. The rolling blackouts are likely a significant factor of the atmosphere. Some train lines in my area were stopped completely while others are only stopped when the power is out. The queues of people for trains have been very long, so it is difficult to commute. As a result, most stores in my area are completely closed. Some stores open when electricity is on, but many shelves are empty of goods that are in demand. Other stores have special security to allow small groups of shoppers (at a time) through a fence into the entranceway in order to purchase in-demand goods, while entrance to the actual store is blocked. Most apartments require power to pump water, so our water goes out as well when the power is off. With strong earthquakes continuing to roll in and blackouts scheduled for some time, I do not know how long it will take for things to return to normal here. I do not have direct experience of what it is like where patio11 is at, but without the rolling blackouts, I am sure that the atmosphere is very different. I have more that I would like to say, but this comment is long enough already, and my power is scheduled to turn off in five minutes.

aik 16y ago
Are the rolling blackouts happening all over Tokyo? Are people in Tokyo going to work and are kids going to their schools now just like before? Good luck to you.
- bdonlan 16y ago
  The central part of tokyo (ward 23) is (with a few very small exceptios) exempt from blackouts, due to having a lot of critical government infrastructure on its grid. Most central tokyo trains have multiple power sources, and are running all day with only slightly reduced schedules (they seem to be gradually ramping back up to full service; some, including the Yamanote line, are already back to the normal schedule). Trains to outlying areas often have to suspend service during blackout times, which rotate each day. Most Shinkansen lines are back up to some degree - some running full schedules - with the exception of lines heading northeast closer to the epicenter; those lines will need major track and station repair. A lot of people are staying home to help reduce load on the transportation and electrical infrastructure. Once the power plants start to come up (and people stop hoarding groceries), things should start to approach normality in the Tokyo area at least. Areas closer to the epicenter will need more rebuilding, however.

patio11 16y ago

Outside of the immediate disaster zones, I think "everything went as planned and life went on without missing more than a few beats" is substantially accurate. The context for my post was originally I got literally in excess of a hundred people who thought I might be dead trying to reach me because of the reporting, despite me being several hundred miles away. I have been talking to news reporters the last few days (whose Rolodex of English-speaking Japanese people is apparently non-existent, so I'm the next best thing) and its like we're living on two different planets: "Can you comment on the food shortages you're experiencing in Fugu?" "Fugu is a poisonous fish. I live in Gifu. There is no food shortage here. I just got a pizza delivered despite there being an earthquake in the middle of the delivery." "I thought the quake was days ago?" "Not that earthquake, the Shizuoka earthquake, at 10:30 PM last night." "Shizuoka... is that by the nuclear power plants??" I nearly exploded. Halfway between Tokyo and Nagoya, cut off power to a lot of people, and would have been virtually unremarkable except that it happened this week. This is a disaster localized to a small portion of a big country. That was certainly not a given: Tokyo could be burning right now, and the situation at the nuclear plant which literally had a tsunami hit it could be the situation at every nuclear and chemical plant in the country. (Or the plant could have suffered immediate, catastrophic failure, rather than immediate work-as-designed followed by a deterioration which gave us enough time to evacuate everyone. Food distribution and trains got a hiccup in Tokyo -- they're now operating normally. (They're decidedly not normal in the towns destroyed in Miyagi, obviously. 500,000 people were displaced at least temporarily.) People do not live in Apple stores. They stayed there one night while waiting for train service to be restored. If you're worried about displaced folks, look to the evacuation sites like e.g. schools in Miyagi, which is where folks who don't have a home to go back to are staying temporarily.

cookiecaper 16y ago
My impression is simply that people don't know Japanese geography, which isn't all together too surprising. There's no reason a person should know the geography of Japan any better than the geography of Uzbekistan if he or she doesn't have a specific tie to either country. They just hear "earthquake in Japan" and ask the people who live in Japan if they're doing alright. My brother lives in Auckland. We had a lot of people asking if he was OK after the quake in Christchurch. They are ~700 miles away on different islands, so he wasn't affected at all by the quake there, but we patiently explained this. It seems silly to get so haughty when people are expressing genuine concern for your well-being.

reneherse 16y ago

Patio11's post both shed light on facts that were receiving little to no news coverage shortly after the main disaster and gave a valuable personal perspective on the unique ethos and role of preparedness and engineering in Japanese society. Sometimes when people write from a contrarian or polemical viewpoint, overstatement occurs in the effort to create balance. I can certainly understand if Patrick's case was slightly overstated. The situation has evolved since his article was posted, but his overall point of the success of Japan's preparedness remains true and still under-reported. Remember, this earthquake was one of the most powerful in history[1]. I think for many it's difficult to imagine just how much worse the devastation could have been from this compound disaster. I shudder to think of the physical destruction and social chaos that would ensue should such an earthquake and tsunami strike my beloved Bay Area; compared to Japan in this context our social fabric is a very loose weave. [1] http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes

jonah 16y ago

This piece gives some perspective on the tsunami's effects in small coastal villages: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16scene.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16scene.html