8 ms·

Japan suspends work at stricken nuclear plant

139 points by Element_ 16y ago

hartror 16y ago
False attention grabbing title. They have not abandoned it, they said in the press conference just passed that they had suspended operations due to a radiation peak but they expected to resume again without much delay. Edit: The workers have returned http://roound.com/redalert http://roound.com/redalert
- jedsmith 16y ago
  The entire article didn't mention any kind of expectation for resuming operations, and you are doubting the Associated Press here, not Gizmodo. Can you cite the rest? So far, I can only find this AP story.
  - pauldino 16y ago
    BBC reports a suspension http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739
    - tptacek 16y ago
      BBC also reported 1,000 mSv measured at the plant. Pretty sure they got that wrong too.
      - jedsmith 16y ago
        The AP reported that figure as well in the linked article.
        tptacek 16y ago
        That can't possibly be right, can it?
        jedsmith 16y ago
        It would certainly explain the evacuation. Edano said "1,000 milli-Sieverts" had been measured last night, but that it was down to under 800 now, and that at the gate the measurements were now in the milli- range as well (hence the evacuation). TEPCO is not exactly being forthcoming about Dai-ichi, but they're being really proactive in telling us the same exact thing about Daini every hour: http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.html http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.htm...
        pauldino 16y ago
        Actually the BBC does seem wrong in that it is reporting 1000 millisieverts rather than microsieverts.
        jedsmith 16y ago
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 ^ 1:20 in the video. Milli. Not micro. Those are Edano's words, not the BBC's. I was told above that he was corrected by another person and that various translations have it as a different figure, but that isn't in the linked video.
        ay 16y ago
        He misspoke. NHK correcting this now. micro is correct; NOT milli
        pyre 16y ago
        I haven't heard anything about 1000 mSv at all. I've been watching/listening to: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv
      - runningdogx 16y ago
        (According to the IAEA) There was one measurement of 400mSv between reactors 3 and 4 [1], I think which actually occurred sometime on monday GMT (possibly Tuesday morning in Japan), which prompted the evacuation. It fell again, which probably prompted the authorities to allow workers back in. The 1000mSv figure is most likely a misreporting of the transient 1008 or 1080uSv (I recall it had an 8 in it) measurement reported over the weekend, or some subsequent measurement... there have been lots in and around the plant that have been on the order of 1000uSv. I really wish everyone in the media speaking about the nuclear crisis would timestamp their comments accurately, ideally in GMT. People all around the world are trying to follow events, and it's nearly impossible to know when some reporter says something about an event whether they're using Japanese time, their local time, or GMT. [1] http://www.facebook.com/notes/international-atomic-energy-agency-iaea/japanese-earthquake-update-15-march-1125-utc/201923359837458 http://www.facebook.com/notes/international-atomic-energy-ag...
  - msbarnett 16y ago
    It was just announced in a press conference that I caught live on NHK that they were planning on resuming operations shortly. The AP article seems to have been written prior to this conference.
    - hartror 16y ago
      Which is exactly what I refered to in my post. sigh
      - afterburner 16y ago
        I think everyone (including myself) was reacting to your claim it was a false attention grabbing title. Regardless of that, looks like broken telephone, best source might be to watch NHK broadcasts directly as you did (CNN seems to be translating it live?). The HTML-news sources didn't note the further detail then, maybe they have now. EDIT: Ah, NHK is providing the translation and stream. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv EDIT 2: Apparently they've been ordered back now. http://roound.com/redalert http://roound.com/redalert EDIT 3: Or not, no-one else is confirming.
        hartror 16y ago
        "2:53 PM - Workers ordered to leave the Fukushima plant have been allowed back after radiation levels fell, the Japan nuclear agency said. Pumping of seawater at reactors at No. 1, 2 and 3 was proceeding smoothly, it said. (Reuters)" http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/#entry-6a00e0097e4e688833014e86bd94f8970d http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/#entry-6a...
  - guscost 16y ago
    Thou shalt not doubt The Associated Press. Unbelievable.
- afterburner 16y ago
  The on-site workers have left, those who were basically right next to the reactor. There is no indication in any article I have read that they will soon return, only plans of helicopter based fire-fighting or other options.
  - hartror 16y ago
    They ruled out using helicopters as anything but a last resort in the press conference. They said it was too risky to dump lots of water on the already fragile reactors.
    - capedape 16y ago
      via @W7VOA "S. Korea to ship boric acid to help Japan stabilize nuclear reactors."
      - hartror 16y ago
        You don't need a helicopter to deliver boric acid into the reactors.
        danvet 16y ago
        But you need tons of additional water if you deliver it with a helicopter.
    - hartror 16y ago
      And it would seem they have decided to take the risk. NHK reporting Japan self-defense forces are preparing to pour water on Daiichi No. 3 reactor from helicopter.
- deleted 16y ago
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- po 16y ago
  I agree the word "abandon" sounds too final. It sounds like they've given up on it which is not true. I think a non-sensationalist headline would say workers have "pulled away".
- patrickgzill 16y ago
  Kyodo News reported that staff had vacated the control room due to high levels of radioactivity. If that is not "abandoning" then it is pretty close to it. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/15/japan-quake-live-blog-fire-erupts-in-fourth-reactor-radiation-warning-issued/?hpt=T1&replytocom=502871 http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/15/japan-quake-live-blog-f... (scroll down or search for "control" in the postings)
  - ubernostrum 16y ago
    The problem people seem to have is that "abandon" implies "everyone has left and no-one will ever come back", and that the plant will be left, unattended, to its fate. While various articles seem to actually be saying "people left temporarily, but will be coming back" and that efforts will continue to deal with the problem.
    - Duff 16y ago
      I'd argue that is splitting hairs. What will magically lower the radiation when the workers leave? They can't drop boric acid and water on the half-melted reactors from helicopters for fear of rupturing them further, the control systems are no longer effective, and pumping in seawater hasn't worked too well so far.
      - rmah 16y ago
        <i>What will magically lower the radiation when the workers leave?</i> Time.
        Aetius 16y ago
        Wind.
        hartror 16y ago
        Right. Most of the radiologicals that have been released with the steam have very short half lives so the radiation levels drop rapidly (relatively speaking).
- smackfu 16y ago
  CNN actually sent out breaking news alerts for both. Silly.
jedsmith 16y ago
Nikkei and CNN both reported that 50 employees stayed behind out of 800, with CNN quoting someone as saying that they should be considered heroes for doing so (couldn't agree more). If you click CNN's "breaking" on this topic, the article actually still says that. This is certainly a much more serious development. Edit: Anderson Cooper called this "hard to believe" on-air, and he's being careful about how to word it. Edit 2: BBC just finished a writethru with more details on the full suspension (thanks paul): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739
- hop 16y ago
  That was yesterdays news. Those ~50 remaining all evacuated apparently. Also, the Wikipedia "Timeline of Fukushima nuclear accidents" has been reliable for the latest updates - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Fukushima_nuclear_accidents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Fukushima_nucle...
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - redthrowaway 16y ago
    As a total aside, I find it interesting that Wikipedia, which 5 years ago would never be considered a reliable source for a developing event such as this, is now (rightly) considered a good place to go to for up to the hour information.
    - InclinedPlane 16y ago
      I've found wikipedia to be an excellent source of news on current events. One of the problems with most "regular" news reporting is that it's very context sensitive. It's a tiny diff of info that assumes that you have already applied all of the previous diffs. If you want to understand a situation well this process can be infuriating. Wikipedia however actually distills down all the info into a complete and coherent whole making it a far more useful overall source of information. However, there are some caveats. Wikipedia isn't well optimized for breaking news, so the hiccups in the process can cause more problems there than for other articles. Case in point, the wiki article for the Sendai quake/tsunami had very early on listed the number of casualties at an astonishing 6 million.
w1ntermute 16y ago
(Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question or I didn't pick up on a major point) Can anyone explain how they're going to stop whatever is going wrong without any workers there?
- wtn 16y ago
  I've read news reports that they were thinking about helicopter drops of water and/or boric acid.
  - jacquesgt 16y ago
    They've rejected helicopter drops because the targets aren't close enough to the holes in the reactor building roofs. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.re...
pessimist 16y ago
Headline is false (possibly mistranslation). According to http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-on-japans-nuclear-crisis-and-earthquake-aftermath-2/ http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-o...: 11:13 P.M. (EST) Core Group of Workers Remain at Plant The Times’s Hiroko Tabuchi reports that a small group of workers remains at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, contrary to what an English translation of the chief cabinet secretary’s remarks had implied. Edit: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2 http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2 is also reporting that workers are (back) in. Also NHK is clearly reporting that the chief secretary misspoke radiation levels and used milli instead of micro.
- jedsmith 16y ago
  I waited a while to get a feel from multiple media outlets before replying to you, and CNN aired the video of the remarks in question in that time...based upon waiting, it would appear that the headline is in fact true. BBC, AP, and CNN have all reported that operations have been suspended due to high radiation levels, as high as 1,000 mSv at their peak, which is enough to justify complete evacuation as I understand it. The last report of radiation levels was 600-800 mSv. Edano's translator on the tape said (loosely, I typed quickly): "All the workers there have suspended operations there. Even the minimum ones. So we have evacuated them in a safe area." The even the minimum ones is interesting. Edano himself promised more details on the suspension later, which is worrying in itself. Edit: Video of Edano's remarks here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739
  - pero 16y ago
    That was 600-800 uSv.
    - jedsmith 16y ago
      Watch the video. He specifically said milli-Sievert.
      - 16y ago
pero 16y ago
They earlier raised the legal radiation limit that workers can be exposed to from 100mSv to 250mSv. Readings at the gates were 800uSv 30 or so minutes ago when the suspension was announced.
- webXL 16y ago
  Don't you mean 800μSv - microsieverts? Seems to me like they have a long way to go until 100mSv - millisieverts
  - pero 16y ago
    No, I don't think so. Whatever sources I got that from had it as milli. I triple checked.
mrshoe 16y ago
I'm having a hard time reconciling patio11's article with more recent reports of people walking 60km to get home, all food being gone from all stores, people living in Apple stores, and the government ordering a 30km evacuation zone around nuclear power plants. Maybe his point was "it could have been a lot worse", but I read it more like "everything went as planned and life went on without missing more than a few beats". The latter certainly doesn't seem to be the case.
- anonymous246 16y ago
  I read his post as being about the quake. with the tsunami, all bets were off. i suspect what you're describing is the aftermath of the tsunami, not the quake.
- blantonl 16y ago
  One thing patio11's article did was to dispell many misconceptions that Americans have about Japan. It is easy to claim that hindsight is 20/20, but his post was very relevant and on target considering the circumstances.
- panarky 16y ago
  patio11 is undoubtedly correct that 'Japanese does not have a word for excessive preparation'. But no matter how excessively prepared for a 7.0 or a 7.5, it may not be possible to prepare for the utter destruction of a 9.0 followed immediately by a tsunami.
  - bl4k 16y ago
    Is it true that there is no japanese word for 'looting'. This all came up from a joke, we were watching the news broadcasts, and my friend said 'you know there is no looting in Japan' and I said 'that is because they don't have a word for it'. I ended up looking it up, and it seems true - can you confirm?
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
Element_ 16y ago
World Nuclear News has posted an update regarding recent developments to their site: http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Second_fire_reported_at_unit_4_1603111.html http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Second_fire_reported_at... Sounds like reactor #3 may have suffered damage similar to #2 causing the increase in radiation.
deleted 16y ago
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- deleted 16y ago
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- blantonl 16y ago
  I accidently down voted you :( But, in answer to your question, it is practically impossible and impractical. Even if you were able to design a radiation proof bunker, you would have to account for the eventual removal of those occupants. And that is just one of the enormous obstacles. Frankly, it's just not that simple.
faramarz 16y ago
In times like these heroes are born. I wouldn't be surprised if some workers stay behind or break protocol to do whatever it takes.
afterburner 16y ago
Apparently they've been ordered back 2 minutes ago. http://roound.com/redalert http://roound.com/redalert
- ay 16y ago
  This link that you posted seems to be sending a lot of misinformation, though the "return to work" part is correct. Radiation levels in Tokyo are near-normal as far as I can see on the online counters. I'm collecting the factual links that do not contain the hysteria, on a post on my blog. No, there is no adsense on that blog. http://bnpcs.blogspot.com/2011/03/links-about-situation-in-japan.html http://bnpcs.blogspot.com/2011/03/links-about-situation-in-j...
  - afterburner 16y ago
    It's quite possible, I have no idea who's updating it, and NHK TV isn't confirming it (yet?).
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - ay 16y ago
      180 workers onsite now, according to YokosoNews folks translating the TBS.
thesystemis 16y ago
the ny times has a pretty amazing article now about the 50 remaining workers trying to avert nuclear disaster in Japan. apparently they are back at work now after radiation levels dropped: http://t.co/7H http://t.co/7H also, reuters has a very good real time blog, I think it's best source of up to date, level headed info. They curate commentary from other into their stream, and have experts, such as nuclear expert do live Q and A in the stream. http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2 http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2
guelo 16y ago
What the Russians did at Chernobyl was they asked the army for volunteers fully informing the soldiers that it could be a suicide mission. They ended up getting more volunteers than they needed.
- hartror 16y ago
  Really? I've seen a couple of docos where the firefighters and such said they had no idea what they were getting themselves into . . .
  - orblivion 16y ago
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbCcutzXzYg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbCcutzXzYg I was just in the middle of this. I'm at about 4 minutes, and the people have gas masks around their necks that they're not even bothering to use. Seems like they're oblivious.
  - guelo 16y ago
    That is correct, the original first responders had no idea and many of them died within a few days. Afterwards the government called for volunteers.
- edambauskas 16y ago
  Volunteers? In Soviet Russia? You are kidding me. I lived there (not in Russia, but it does not matter). I was a small kid at the time, but I have heard a family story a few times how my father stayed out of work and home not to be included into the list of "volunteers". There were people asking for him at work. The reasons for choosing him? He was an engineer and young enough. He got notified by a coworker and got himself a certificate from a doctor to stay out of work. A lot of other young guys didn't get a warning in advance and now suffer the illnesses they got from "volunteering".
  - guelo 16y ago
    Yes, I know there are a lot of "Liquidators" that were forced to work at Chernobyl. But the original crew that was going up to the roof and disposing material by hand, those guys were military volunteers. Here I found the story of one guy that volunteered http://www.chernobylee.com/articles/chernobyl/interview-with-a-chernobyl-liquidator-sergei-b---part-i.php http://www.chernobylee.com/articles/chernobyl/interview-with... Apparently those guys were treated as heroes, got benefits like higher pensions and being able to go to the front of any line (cool!).
ck2 16y ago
So just out of curiosity, does GE have any liability since they built all those reactors? Or does "earthquake" get them out of any responsibility? Any GE Mark I's on the west coast on the USA?
- jrockway 16y ago
  The reactors didn't fail; the site did. If the backup generators and power grid didn't fail, there wouldn't have been any issue. It's well known that you can't just unplug a nuclear power plant and have it shut down safely.
- Pyrodogg 16y ago
  You can find a list of Boiling Water Reactors here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boiling_water_reactors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boiling_water_reactors
radicaldreamer 16y ago
This is worrying (unless it's to conserve bandwidth so the video can be rebroadcast via mirrors): "TEPCO has removed public access to a webcam showing the Fukoshima reactors. Now a password is needed in order to observe the complex."
soamv 16y ago
A reporter for the NYT in Japan says the workers aren't leaving -- http://twitter.com/#!/HirokoTabuchi/status/47882019102928896 http://twitter.com/#!/HirokoTabuchi/status/47882019102928896
- icarus_drowning 16y ago
  More importantly, she claims that a "core team" didn't leave. There's a lot of contradictory and confusing information on the situation right now.
bluedanieru 16y ago
Just in case anyone is wondering, levels of radiation in Shinjuku, Tokyo, have remained at about 0.05µSv/hr for the day, tapering off from 0.1µSv/hr for a few hours very early this morning (before the evacuation from Dai-Ichi). Equivalent to about one chest x-ray each month. Normally the amount in Tokyo is 0.035µSv/hr.
redthrowaway 16y ago
FYI, the article is false. It was based on a translation error. A core group of workers is still at the plant working to cool the cores. Source: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-on-japans-nuclear-crisis-and-earthquake-aftermath-2/ http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-o...
stofu 16y ago
Instead of committing Seppuku the responsible executives should form a bucket brigade ...
friendstock 16y ago
Question: why don't the US military forces get involved in the rescue effort at Fukushima? Is it because the Japanese government does not want the US to get involved due to political considerations, or because there's not much the US forces could do to help at this point?

139 points by Element_ 16y ago

False attention grabbing title. They have not abandoned it, they said in the press conference just passed that they had suspended operations due to a radiation peak but they expected to resume again without much delay. Edit: The workers have returned http://roound.com/redalert http://roound.com/redalert

jedsmith 16y ago
The entire article didn't mention any kind of expectation for resuming operations, and you are doubting the Associated Press here, not Gizmodo. Can you cite the rest? So far, I can only find this AP story.
- pauldino 16y ago
  BBC reports a suspension http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739
  - tptacek 16y ago
    BBC also reported 1,000 mSv measured at the plant. Pretty sure they got that wrong too.
    - jedsmith 16y ago
      The AP reported that figure as well in the linked article.
      - tptacek 16y ago
        That can't possibly be right, can it?
        jedsmith 16y ago
        It would certainly explain the evacuation. Edano said "1,000 milli-Sieverts" had been measured last night, but that it was down to under 800 now, and that at the gate the measurements were now in the milli- range as well (hence the evacuation). TEPCO is not exactly being forthcoming about Dai-ichi, but they're being really proactive in telling us the same exact thing about Daini every hour: http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.html http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/index-e.htm...
        pauldino 16y ago
        Actually the BBC does seem wrong in that it is reporting 1000 millisieverts rather than microsieverts.
        jedsmith 16y ago
        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 ^ 1:20 in the video. Milli. Not micro. Those are Edano's words, not the BBC's. I was told above that he was corrected by another person and that various translations have it as a different figure, but that isn't in the linked video.
        ay 16y ago
        He misspoke. NHK correcting this now. micro is correct; NOT milli
        pyre 16y ago
        I haven't heard anything about 1000 mSv at all. I've been watching/listening to: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv
    - runningdogx 16y ago
      (According to the IAEA) There was one measurement of 400mSv between reactors 3 and 4 [1], I think which actually occurred sometime on monday GMT (possibly Tuesday morning in Japan), which prompted the evacuation. It fell again, which probably prompted the authorities to allow workers back in. The 1000mSv figure is most likely a misreporting of the transient 1008 or 1080uSv (I recall it had an 8 in it) measurement reported over the weekend, or some subsequent measurement... there have been lots in and around the plant that have been on the order of 1000uSv. I really wish everyone in the media speaking about the nuclear crisis would timestamp their comments accurately, ideally in GMT. People all around the world are trying to follow events, and it's nearly impossible to know when some reporter says something about an event whether they're using Japanese time, their local time, or GMT. [1] http://www.facebook.com/notes/international-atomic-energy-agency-iaea/japanese-earthquake-update-15-march-1125-utc/201923359837458 http://www.facebook.com/notes/international-atomic-energy-ag...
- msbarnett 16y ago
  It was just announced in a press conference that I caught live on NHK that they were planning on resuming operations shortly. The AP article seems to have been written prior to this conference.
  - hartror 16y ago
    Which is exactly what I refered to in my post. sigh
    - afterburner 16y ago
      I think everyone (including myself) was reacting to your claim it was a false attention grabbing title. Regardless of that, looks like broken telephone, best source might be to watch NHK broadcasts directly as you did (CNN seems to be translating it live?). The HTML-news sources didn't note the further detail then, maybe they have now. EDIT: Ah, NHK is providing the translation and stream. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv EDIT 2: Apparently they've been ordered back now. http://roound.com/redalert http://roound.com/redalert EDIT 3: Or not, no-one else is confirming.
      - hartror 16y ago
        "2:53 PM - Workers ordered to leave the Fukushima plant have been allowed back after radiation levels fell, the Japan nuclear agency said. Pumping of seawater at reactors at No. 1, 2 and 3 was proceeding smoothly, it said. (Reuters)" http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/#entry-6a00e0097e4e688833014e86bd94f8970d http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/#entry-6a...
- guscost 16y ago
  Thou shalt not doubt The Associated Press. Unbelievable.
afterburner 16y ago
The on-site workers have left, those who were basically right next to the reactor. There is no indication in any article I have read that they will soon return, only plans of helicopter based fire-fighting or other options.
- hartror 16y ago
  They ruled out using helicopters as anything but a last resort in the press conference. They said it was too risky to dump lots of water on the already fragile reactors.
  - capedape 16y ago
    via @W7VOA "S. Korea to ship boric acid to help Japan stabilize nuclear reactors."
    - hartror 16y ago
      You don't need a helicopter to deliver boric acid into the reactors.
      - danvet 16y ago
        But you need tons of additional water if you deliver it with a helicopter.
  - hartror 16y ago
    And it would seem they have decided to take the risk. NHK reporting Japan self-defense forces are preparing to pour water on Daiichi No. 3 reactor from helicopter.
deleted 16y ago
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po 16y ago
I agree the word "abandon" sounds too final. It sounds like they've given up on it which is not true. I think a non-sensationalist headline would say workers have "pulled away".
patrickgzill 16y ago
Kyodo News reported that staff had vacated the control room due to high levels of radioactivity. If that is not "abandoning" then it is pretty close to it. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/15/japan-quake-live-blog-fire-erupts-in-fourth-reactor-radiation-warning-issued/?hpt=T1&replytocom=502871 http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/15/japan-quake-live-blog-f... (scroll down or search for "control" in the postings)
- ubernostrum 16y ago
  The problem people seem to have is that "abandon" implies "everyone has left and no-one will ever come back", and that the plant will be left, unattended, to its fate. While various articles seem to actually be saying "people left temporarily, but will be coming back" and that efforts will continue to deal with the problem.
  - Duff 16y ago
    I'd argue that is splitting hairs. What will magically lower the radiation when the workers leave? They can't drop boric acid and water on the half-melted reactors from helicopters for fear of rupturing them further, the control systems are no longer effective, and pumping in seawater hasn't worked too well so far.
    - rmah 16y ago
      <i>What will magically lower the radiation when the workers leave?</i> Time.
      - Aetius 16y ago
        Wind.
      - hartror 16y ago
        Right. Most of the radiologicals that have been released with the steam have very short half lives so the radiation levels drop rapidly (relatively speaking).
smackfu 16y ago
CNN actually sent out breaking news alerts for both. Silly.

jedsmith 16y ago

Nikkei and CNN both reported that 50 employees stayed behind out of 800, with CNN quoting someone as saying that they should be considered heroes for doing so (couldn't agree more). If you click CNN's "breaking" on this topic, the article actually still says that. This is certainly a much more serious development. Edit: Anderson Cooper called this "hard to believe" on-air, and he's being careful about how to word it. Edit 2: BBC just finished a writethru with more details on the full suspension (thanks paul): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739

hop 16y ago
That was yesterdays news. Those ~50 remaining all evacuated apparently. Also, the Wikipedia "Timeline of Fukushima nuclear accidents" has been reliable for the latest updates - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Fukushima_nuclear_accidents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Fukushima_nucle...
- deleted 16y ago
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- redthrowaway 16y ago
  As a total aside, I find it interesting that Wikipedia, which 5 years ago would never be considered a reliable source for a developing event such as this, is now (rightly) considered a good place to go to for up to the hour information.
  - InclinedPlane 16y ago
    I've found wikipedia to be an excellent source of news on current events. One of the problems with most "regular" news reporting is that it's very context sensitive. It's a tiny diff of info that assumes that you have already applied all of the previous diffs. If you want to understand a situation well this process can be infuriating. Wikipedia however actually distills down all the info into a complete and coherent whole making it a far more useful overall source of information. However, there are some caveats. Wikipedia isn't well optimized for breaking news, so the hiccups in the process can cause more problems there than for other articles. Case in point, the wiki article for the Sendai quake/tsunami had very early on listed the number of casualties at an astonishing 6 million.

w1ntermute 16y ago

(Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question or I didn't pick up on a major point) Can anyone explain how they're going to stop whatever is going wrong without any workers there?

wtn 16y ago
I've read news reports that they were thinking about helicopter drops of water and/or boric acid.
- jacquesgt 16y ago
  They've rejected helicopter drops because the targets aren't close enough to the holes in the reactor building roofs. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.re...

pessimist 16y ago

Headline is false (possibly mistranslation). According to http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-on-japans-nuclear-crisis-and-earthquake-aftermath-2/ http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-o...: 11:13 P.M. (EST) Core Group of Workers Remain at Plant The Times’s Hiroko Tabuchi reports that a small group of workers remains at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, contrary to what an English translation of the chief cabinet secretary’s remarks had implied. Edit: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2 http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2 is also reporting that workers are (back) in. Also NHK is clearly reporting that the chief secretary misspoke radiation levels and used milli instead of micro.

jedsmith 16y ago
I waited a while to get a feel from multiple media outlets before replying to you, and CNN aired the video of the remarks in question in that time...based upon waiting, it would appear that the headline is in fact true. BBC, AP, and CNN have all reported that operations have been suspended due to high radiation levels, as high as 1,000 mSv at their peak, which is enough to justify complete evacuation as I understand it. The last report of radiation levels was 600-800 mSv. Edano's translator on the tape said (loosely, I typed quickly): "All the workers there have suspended operations there. Even the minimum ones. So we have evacuated them in a safe area." The even the minimum ones is interesting. Edano himself promised more details on the suspension later, which is worrying in itself. Edit: Video of Edano's remarks here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12755739
- pero 16y ago
  That was 600-800 uSv.
  - jedsmith 16y ago
    Watch the video. He specifically said milli-Sievert.
    - 16y ago

pero 16y ago

They earlier raised the legal radiation limit that workers can be exposed to from 100mSv to 250mSv. Readings at the gates were 800uSv 30 or so minutes ago when the suspension was announced.

webXL 16y ago
Don't you mean 800μSv - microsieverts? Seems to me like they have a long way to go until 100mSv - millisieverts
- pero 16y ago
  No, I don't think so. Whatever sources I got that from had it as milli. I triple checked.

mrshoe 16y ago

I'm having a hard time reconciling patio11's article with more recent reports of people walking 60km to get home, all food being gone from all stores, people living in Apple stores, and the government ordering a 30km evacuation zone around nuclear power plants. Maybe his point was "it could have been a lot worse", but I read it more like "everything went as planned and life went on without missing more than a few beats". The latter certainly doesn't seem to be the case.

anonymous246 16y ago
I read his post as being about the quake. with the tsunami, all bets were off. i suspect what you're describing is the aftermath of the tsunami, not the quake.
blantonl 16y ago
One thing patio11's article did was to dispell many misconceptions that Americans have about Japan. It is easy to claim that hindsight is 20/20, but his post was very relevant and on target considering the circumstances.
panarky 16y ago
patio11 is undoubtedly correct that 'Japanese does not have a word for excessive preparation'. But no matter how excessively prepared for a 7.0 or a 7.5, it may not be possible to prepare for the utter destruction of a 9.0 followed immediately by a tsunami.
- bl4k 16y ago
  Is it true that there is no japanese word for 'looting'. This all came up from a joke, we were watching the news broadcasts, and my friend said 'you know there is no looting in Japan' and I said 'that is because they don't have a word for it'. I ended up looking it up, and it seems true - can you confirm?
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]

Element_ 16y ago

World Nuclear News has posted an update regarding recent developments to their site: http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Second_fire_reported_at_unit_4_1603111.html http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Second_fire_reported_at... Sounds like reactor #3 may have suffered damage similar to #2 causing the increase in radiation.

deleted 16y ago

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deleted 16y ago
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blantonl 16y ago
I accidently down voted you :( But, in answer to your question, it is practically impossible and impractical. Even if you were able to design a radiation proof bunker, you would have to account for the eventual removal of those occupants. And that is just one of the enormous obstacles. Frankly, it's just not that simple.

faramarz 16y ago

In times like these heroes are born. I wouldn't be surprised if some workers stay behind or break protocol to do whatever it takes.

afterburner 16y ago

Apparently they've been ordered back 2 minutes ago. http://roound.com/redalert http://roound.com/redalert

ay 16y ago
This link that you posted seems to be sending a lot of misinformation, though the "return to work" part is correct. Radiation levels in Tokyo are near-normal as far as I can see on the online counters. I'm collecting the factual links that do not contain the hysteria, on a post on my blog. No, there is no adsense on that blog. http://bnpcs.blogspot.com/2011/03/links-about-situation-in-japan.html http://bnpcs.blogspot.com/2011/03/links-about-situation-in-j...
- afterburner 16y ago
  It's quite possible, I have no idea who's updating it, and NHK TV isn't confirming it (yet?).
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - ay 16y ago
    180 workers onsite now, according to YokosoNews folks translating the TBS.

thesystemis 16y ago

the ny times has a pretty amazing article now about the 50 remaining workers trying to avert nuclear disaster in Japan. apparently they are back at work now after radiation levels dropped: http://t.co/7H http://t.co/7H also, reuters has a very good real time blog, I think it's best source of up to date, level headed info. They curate commentary from other into their stream, and have experts, such as nuclear expert do live Q and A in the stream. http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2 http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

guelo 16y ago

What the Russians did at Chernobyl was they asked the army for volunteers fully informing the soldiers that it could be a suicide mission. They ended up getting more volunteers than they needed.

hartror 16y ago
Really? I've seen a couple of docos where the firefighters and such said they had no idea what they were getting themselves into . . .
- orblivion 16y ago
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbCcutzXzYg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbCcutzXzYg I was just in the middle of this. I'm at about 4 minutes, and the people have gas masks around their necks that they're not even bothering to use. Seems like they're oblivious.
- guelo 16y ago
  That is correct, the original first responders had no idea and many of them died within a few days. Afterwards the government called for volunteers.
edambauskas 16y ago
Volunteers? In Soviet Russia? You are kidding me. I lived there (not in Russia, but it does not matter). I was a small kid at the time, but I have heard a family story a few times how my father stayed out of work and home not to be included into the list of "volunteers". There were people asking for him at work. The reasons for choosing him? He was an engineer and young enough. He got notified by a coworker and got himself a certificate from a doctor to stay out of work. A lot of other young guys didn't get a warning in advance and now suffer the illnesses they got from "volunteering".
- guelo 16y ago
  Yes, I know there are a lot of "Liquidators" that were forced to work at Chernobyl. But the original crew that was going up to the roof and disposing material by hand, those guys were military volunteers. Here I found the story of one guy that volunteered http://www.chernobylee.com/articles/chernobyl/interview-with-a-chernobyl-liquidator-sergei-b---part-i.php http://www.chernobylee.com/articles/chernobyl/interview-with... Apparently those guys were treated as heroes, got benefits like higher pensions and being able to go to the front of any line (cool!).

ck2 16y ago

So just out of curiosity, does GE have any liability since they built all those reactors? Or does "earthquake" get them out of any responsibility? Any GE Mark I's on the west coast on the USA?

jrockway 16y ago
The reactors didn't fail; the site did. If the backup generators and power grid didn't fail, there wouldn't have been any issue. It's well known that you can't just unplug a nuclear power plant and have it shut down safely.
Pyrodogg 16y ago
You can find a list of Boiling Water Reactors here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boiling_water_reactors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boiling_water_reactors

radicaldreamer 16y ago

This is worrying (unless it's to conserve bandwidth so the video can be rebroadcast via mirrors): "TEPCO has removed public access to a webcam showing the Fukoshima reactors. Now a password is needed in order to observe the complex."

soamv 16y ago

A reporter for the NYT in Japan says the workers aren't leaving -- http://twitter.com/#!/HirokoTabuchi/status/47882019102928896 http://twitter.com/#!/HirokoTabuchi/status/47882019102928896

icarus_drowning 16y ago
More importantly, she claims that a "core team" didn't leave. There's a lot of contradictory and confusing information on the situation right now.

bluedanieru 16y ago

Just in case anyone is wondering, levels of radiation in Shinjuku, Tokyo, have remained at about 0.05µSv/hr for the day, tapering off from 0.1µSv/hr for a few hours very early this morning (before the evacuation from Dai-Ichi). Equivalent to about one chest x-ray each month. Normally the amount in Tokyo is 0.035µSv/hr.

redthrowaway 16y ago

FYI, the article is false. It was based on a translation error. A core group of workers is still at the plant working to cool the cores. Source: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-on-japans-nuclear-crisis-and-earthquake-aftermath-2/ http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/latest-updates-o...

stofu 16y ago

Instead of committing Seppuku the responsible executives should form a bucket brigade ...

friendstock 16y ago

Question: why don't the US military forces get involved in the rescue effort at Fukushima? Is it because the Japanese government does not want the US to get involved due to political considerations, or because there's not much the US forces could do to help at this point?