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I've been sitting here for 5 minutes feeling horrified and sad that your comment is downvoted to near unreadability for suggesting that lying like that in an in

I've been sitting here for 5 minutes feeling horrified and sad that your comment is downvoted to near unreadability for suggesting that lying like that in an interview may be unethical, while a sociopathic-sounding child comment extolling the virtues of lying/misleading – they "can actually help things flow smoothly and justly", without lying "the interview might have gone badly" and lecturing you on "radical honesty" being a sign of problems/mild autism like you're a naive idiot who just doesn't understand the world – isn't downvoted at all. I wouldn't call it "radical honesty" not to lie in a situation like this! Sounds like "radical honesty" has a new meaning "not lying in any situation you could gain an advantage by doing so". This reminds me of another time on HN someone told a story about how they'd cheated in a hi-tech way in an exam and a dozen comments supported them, not one person suggesting it might be wrong...until me, then I got virulently attacked for doing so. At least there their comment got [dead]ed. I just wanted to say - you're not alone, that also seems very dodgy to me. Moments like this HN is very disappointing.

orestarod 6y ago
If you want to change things, the first step is to recognize the problem lies to those with power, like your manager, who lied their way to the top, not to a fellow employee trying to get a job. Being honest to liars and manipulators to earn enough of their pity to hire you did not suddenly become the peak of morality. The bottom of society is responsible for their unhappiness because they have not risen to end it, not because they have not licked enough boots.
unishark 6y ago
I thought "radical honesty" sounded silly. And turning the argument into an attack on the speaker wasn't kosher either. But I also thought "quite unethical" was a bit silly (though I didn't downvote anyone). Perhaps people didn't like the tone. Also there could be a language issue with the degree implied by the word "quite". In stark black and white terms, it is unethical, yes, as a lie of omission. If there are shades of gray, it is not on the extreme to get lucky and have heard a question before. I have also noticed there is a contingent of commenters who seem to view stories in terms of the victimized workers versus the evil corporations, and punish people who appear to take the wrong side. Probably a similar bunch shows up when the argument is about students versus teachers. Not necessarily a universal lack of ethics.

orestarod 6y ago

If you want to change things, the first step is to recognize the problem lies to those with power, like your manager, who lied their way to the top, not to a fellow employee trying to get a job. Being honest to liars and manipulators to earn enough of their pity to hire you did not suddenly become the peak of morality. The bottom of society is responsible for their unhappiness because they have not risen to end it, not because they have not licked enough boots.

unishark 6y ago

I thought "radical honesty" sounded silly. And turning the argument into an attack on the speaker wasn't kosher either. But I also thought "quite unethical" was a bit silly (though I didn't downvote anyone). Perhaps people didn't like the tone. Also there could be a language issue with the degree implied by the word "quite". In stark black and white terms, it is unethical, yes, as a lie of omission. If there are shades of gray, it is not on the extreme to get lucky and have heard a question before. I have also noticed there is a contingent of commenters who seem to view stories in terms of the victimized workers versus the evil corporations, and punish people who appear to take the wrong side. Probably a similar bunch shows up when the argument is about students versus teachers. Not necessarily a universal lack of ethics.