4 ms·

Isn't that quite unethical? You are knowingly misleading a potential employer when you play games like that.

yesenadam 6y ago
I've been sitting here for 5 minutes feeling horrified and sad that your comment is downvoted to near unreadability for suggesting that lying like that in an interview may be unethical, while a sociopathic-sounding child comment extolling the virtues of lying/misleading – they "can actually help things flow smoothly and justly", without lying "the interview might have gone badly" and lecturing you on "radical honesty" being a sign of problems/mild autism like you're a naive idiot who just doesn't understand the world – isn't downvoted at all. I wouldn't call it "radical honesty" not to lie in a situation like this! Sounds like "radical honesty" has a new meaning "not lying in any situation you could gain an advantage by doing so". This reminds me of another time on HN someone told a story about how they'd cheated in a hi-tech way in an exam and a dozen comments supported them, not one person suggesting it might be wrong...until me, then I got virulently attacked for doing so. At least there their comment got [dead]ed. I just wanted to say - you're not alone, that also seems very dodgy to me. Moments like this HN is very disappointing.
- orestarod 6y ago
  If you want to change things, the first step is to recognize the problem lies to those with power, like your manager, who lied their way to the top, not to a fellow employee trying to get a job. Being honest to liars and manipulators to earn enough of their pity to hire you did not suddenly become the peak of morality. The bottom of society is responsible for their unhappiness because they have not risen to end it, not because they have not licked enough boots.
- unishark 6y ago
  I thought "radical honesty" sounded silly. And turning the argument into an attack on the speaker wasn't kosher either. But I also thought "quite unethical" was a bit silly (though I didn't downvote anyone). Perhaps people didn't like the tone. Also there could be a language issue with the degree implied by the word "quite". In stark black and white terms, it is unethical, yes, as a lie of omission. If there are shades of gray, it is not on the extreme to get lucky and have heard a question before. I have also noticed there is a contingent of commenters who seem to view stories in terms of the victimized workers versus the evil corporations, and punish people who appear to take the wrong side. Probably a similar bunch shows up when the argument is about students versus teachers. Not necessarily a universal lack of ethics.
sparkie 6y ago
If you are fit for the job role, then no. The employer is misleading themselves by thinking that a silly interview question is a good measure of a person's ability to fill a role. GP is in fact, doing the employer a favour by bypassing this silly charade and letting them have access to his real talents.
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  I am not entirely certain I owe my potential future employer a favour which is probably going to turn against me immediately.
FrankSansC 6y ago
Knowing an answer is one thing, being able to explain it is another one. You can easily spot people who "cheat" by rote learning.
ghusbands 6y ago
Lying (misleading) is a complicated subject. Though some use it to excuse too much, lying and misleading can actually help things flow smoothly and justly. In this case, if the interviewee had been radically honest and interviewer had not had a backup question, the interview might have gone badly, even though the interviewee apparently was a good employ. In fact, radical/extreme honesty is often seen as a sign of childhood problems or mild autism by mental health practitioners, as people normally learn to white lie at young age.
- thomasahle 6y ago
  > If the ... interviewer had not had a backup question, the interview might have gone badly That seems like a wild assumption to make. Interviewers will usually tell you straight up to inform them if you already know the question.
  - heavenlyblue 6y ago
    What would happen if you didn’t?
    - whatshisface 6y ago
      You'd be joining the ranks of pod people who real people work day and night to eliminate from among them.
gitgud 6y ago
Well interview's typically have a trick question... Perhaps this was a trick answer
gottareply2020 6y ago
I once interviewed fresh out of college for a tech job at a big shop. When the interviewer got to the puzzle questions, they prefaced with ‘And be honest if you’ve heard it before. We want to get one you haven’t heard.’ Seven puzzles later of me saying, “yes, I’ve heard that one” and giving an short description indicating that I understood the solution, the interviewer became visibly upset/annoyed. And so when they asked the 8th question I suddenly ‘didn’t know this one.’ The interviewer was delighted. Of course I did know it already but pretended to work my way through it. Got the offer, didn’t take it because that interviewer would’ve been my boss’ boss.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- VeniVidiVici42 6y ago
  Similar story: I had an interview for an internship at a trading firm, in which they asked me several questions that I wrote (for a math competition at my school). I took the honest route and explained that I had authored all these problems, leading to the interviewer getting so annoyed that they just cut the interview early. Unsurprisingly, did not get an offer.
  - rasz 6y ago
    How about being interviewed using your own book, but the interviewer didnt notice authors name on the cover, doesnt understand the questions and butchers the problems? ;-) Happened to Elecia White (of https://embedded.fm/ https://embedded.fm/)
TrackerFF 6y ago
As long as you can actually walk them through your thought process on how you came up with the answer, I think you're good. But a good interviewer should also follow up on questions that can lead to trivia-type answers. For example, if some interviewer ask you "What is the sum of integers from 1 to 100", a valid answer from you could be "Well we learned in school that Gauss figured out this problem at early age, and came up with the answer 5050 - so the answer is 5050" In which case the interviewer has the options of A) Conclude the question, and move onto something else B) Try to get you to expand on this theory - and how Gauss came up with that If he then goes with B, and you start explaining that (1 + 100) + (2 + 99) + ... + (50 + 51) equals 5050, he could ask you to come up with a more general form of this answer - i.e the sum of some arbitrary arithmetic sequence. And if you then go to expand on this, and arrive at the answer that the sum of the original sequence is sum = s(s+1)/2, then that is IMO very good for both parts. The key here is that you actually walk them through the steps, and interact with the interviewer. Maybe they introduce constraints, or new rules. One can take "easy" questions that you've seen thousands of times, and make them into interesting ones, where you spend some time communicating, and showcasing how you solve problems. The point is not to arrive at "the sum is 5050", but rather to monitor how you think, and solve problems, with people around you.
orestarod 6y ago
Employers mislead employees all the time. You could say the hiring process was unethical as it rewarded having googled questions instead of actual competence, thus robbing a worthy engineer of their job.

I've been sitting here for 5 minutes feeling horrified and sad that your comment is downvoted to near unreadability for suggesting that lying like that in an interview may be unethical, while a sociopathic-sounding child comment extolling the virtues of lying/misleading – they "can actually help things flow smoothly and justly", without lying "the interview might have gone badly" and lecturing you on "radical honesty" being a sign of problems/mild autism like you're a naive idiot who just doesn't understand the world – isn't downvoted at all. I wouldn't call it "radical honesty" not to lie in a situation like this! Sounds like "radical honesty" has a new meaning "not lying in any situation you could gain an advantage by doing so". This reminds me of another time on HN someone told a story about how they'd cheated in a hi-tech way in an exam and a dozen comments supported them, not one person suggesting it might be wrong...until me, then I got virulently attacked for doing so. At least there their comment got [dead]ed. I just wanted to say - you're not alone, that also seems very dodgy to me. Moments like this HN is very disappointing.

orestarod 6y ago
If you want to change things, the first step is to recognize the problem lies to those with power, like your manager, who lied their way to the top, not to a fellow employee trying to get a job. Being honest to liars and manipulators to earn enough of their pity to hire you did not suddenly become the peak of morality. The bottom of society is responsible for their unhappiness because they have not risen to end it, not because they have not licked enough boots.
unishark 6y ago
I thought "radical honesty" sounded silly. And turning the argument into an attack on the speaker wasn't kosher either. But I also thought "quite unethical" was a bit silly (though I didn't downvote anyone). Perhaps people didn't like the tone. Also there could be a language issue with the degree implied by the word "quite". In stark black and white terms, it is unethical, yes, as a lie of omission. If there are shades of gray, it is not on the extreme to get lucky and have heard a question before. I have also noticed there is a contingent of commenters who seem to view stories in terms of the victimized workers versus the evil corporations, and punish people who appear to take the wrong side. Probably a similar bunch shows up when the argument is about students versus teachers. Not necessarily a universal lack of ethics.

sparkie 6y ago

If you are fit for the job role, then no. The employer is misleading themselves by thinking that a silly interview question is a good measure of a person's ability to fill a role. GP is in fact, doing the employer a favour by bypassing this silly charade and letting them have access to his real talents.

heavenlyblue 6y ago
I am not entirely certain I owe my potential future employer a favour which is probably going to turn against me immediately.

FrankSansC 6y ago

Knowing an answer is one thing, being able to explain it is another one. You can easily spot people who "cheat" by rote learning.

ghusbands 6y ago

Lying (misleading) is a complicated subject. Though some use it to excuse too much, lying and misleading can actually help things flow smoothly and justly. In this case, if the interviewee had been radically honest and interviewer had not had a backup question, the interview might have gone badly, even though the interviewee apparently was a good employ. In fact, radical/extreme honesty is often seen as a sign of childhood problems or mild autism by mental health practitioners, as people normally learn to white lie at young age.

thomasahle 6y ago
> If the ... interviewer had not had a backup question, the interview might have gone badly That seems like a wild assumption to make. Interviewers will usually tell you straight up to inform them if you already know the question.
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  What would happen if you didn’t?
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    You'd be joining the ranks of pod people who real people work day and night to eliminate from among them.

gitgud 6y ago

Well interview's typically have a trick question... Perhaps this was a trick answer

gottareply2020 6y ago

I once interviewed fresh out of college for a tech job at a big shop. When the interviewer got to the puzzle questions, they prefaced with ‘And be honest if you’ve heard it before. We want to get one you haven’t heard.’ Seven puzzles later of me saying, “yes, I’ve heard that one” and giving an short description indicating that I understood the solution, the interviewer became visibly upset/annoyed. And so when they asked the 8th question I suddenly ‘didn’t know this one.’ The interviewer was delighted. Of course I did know it already but pretended to work my way through it. Got the offer, didn’t take it because that interviewer would’ve been my boss’ boss.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
VeniVidiVici42 6y ago
Similar story: I had an interview for an internship at a trading firm, in which they asked me several questions that I wrote (for a math competition at my school). I took the honest route and explained that I had authored all these problems, leading to the interviewer getting so annoyed that they just cut the interview early. Unsurprisingly, did not get an offer.
- rasz 6y ago
  How about being interviewed using your own book, but the interviewer didnt notice authors name on the cover, doesnt understand the questions and butchers the problems? ;-) Happened to Elecia White (of https://embedded.fm/ https://embedded.fm/)

TrackerFF 6y ago

As long as you can actually walk them through your thought process on how you came up with the answer, I think you're good. But a good interviewer should also follow up on questions that can lead to trivia-type answers. For example, if some interviewer ask you "What is the sum of integers from 1 to 100", a valid answer from you could be "Well we learned in school that Gauss figured out this problem at early age, and came up with the answer 5050 - so the answer is 5050" In which case the interviewer has the options of A) Conclude the question, and move onto something else B) Try to get you to expand on this theory - and how Gauss came up with that If he then goes with B, and you start explaining that (1 + 100) + (2 + 99) + ... + (50 + 51) equals 5050, he could ask you to come up with a more general form of this answer - i.e the sum of some arbitrary arithmetic sequence. And if you then go to expand on this, and arrive at the answer that the sum of the original sequence is sum = s(s+1)/2, then that is IMO very good for both parts. The key here is that you actually walk them through the steps, and interact with the interviewer. Maybe they introduce constraints, or new rules. One can take "easy" questions that you've seen thousands of times, and make them into interesting ones, where you spend some time communicating, and showcasing how you solve problems. The point is not to arrive at "the sum is 5050", but rather to monitor how you think, and solve problems, with people around you.

orestarod 6y ago

Employers mislead employees all the time. You could say the hiring process was unethical as it rewarded having googled questions instead of actual competence, thus robbing a worthy engineer of their job.