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> With WSL 2, there's very little reason to use Linux desktop any more. My personal reasons to stick to Linux: - my DE is fully keyboard-driven (Windows is mo

by q3k 6y ago

> With WSL 2, there's very little reason to use Linux desktop any more. My personal reasons to stick to Linux: - my DE is fully keyboard-driven (Windows is mouse-centric to be point of being unusable to me) - better support for complex networking (NAT, multiple route tables/VRFs/netnses, etc - just last week I had to run my entire network uplink through USB tethering, which was a breeze on Linux) - system update when I want it, zero system-mandated reboots - easy debuggability of software failures (Windows, when fails, is a black box and your only option to fix things is to enter black magic commands from random forum threads - without possibility of actually understanding what failed, looking at source code, etc) - no feeling of always fighting against malicious, privacy-disrespecting software (it's not that I can't disable ads and tracking, but I really don't want to have to do that)

DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
> Windows is mouse-centric to be point of being unusable to me I find that very relateable. I have gotten used to doing everything with my keyboard and windows just doesn't allow that to the same extent.
- bootlooped 6y ago
  Can you give some examples? I've found it to be pretty good with the basic stuff like switching applications or workspaces, snapping windows to the left or right half of the screen, opening and closing arbitrary things. I can think of some ways I'd like it to be better though, like making the left/right halves arbitrary sizes with the keyboard.
  - DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
    I have yet to figure out how I can quickly move one window to another workspace in windows. Under mint, I just do Ctrl+Alt+Sfit+H/L to move a window to the previous or next workspace. I also have Windows+T mapped to open a terminal, which I do everything in these days.
    - masonic 6y ago
      ALT-TAB doesn't do what you want?
  - q3k 6y ago
    I very often use complex window layouts [1], not just side-by-side. The fact that I can ask my window manager to arrange them for me, in the way I want, without having to drag them, and without them ever overlapping, and without wasting screen space on useless window decorations, is something I'm just too used to to switch back to the way Windows would have me manually arrange and resize them. [1] - https://q3k.org/u/96613e57e6d630e35c8872f2fe970331fa327cd50143aae26f389ad927af7f42.png https://q3k.org/u/96613e57e6d630e35c8872f2fe970331fa327cd501...
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      There are tiling window managers for Windows. I know because I am making one :)
- de_watcher 6y ago
  Windows is mouse-centric but you've got to install stuff to get middle-click paste working.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  You can actually operate the entirety of Windows UI with just the keyboard. That's one reason why the great majority of handicapped users use Windows and not macOS or Linux.
  - rcarmo 6y ago
    Actually, it’s a lot more about standardization and pricing. Apple’s assistive tech is excellent.
TheGrassyKnoll 6y ago
> "- system update when I want it,..." Windows ramming its updates down my throat whenever they feel like it is totally unacceptable among other things.
- Exmoor 6y ago
  Mandated, automatic updates have their downsides, especially for some of the HN crowd, but for 99% of the population I really appreciate that patching is automatic for the other 95%+ of users. Getting the vast majority of computers in world quickly up to current security patches protects users and creates something akin to "herd immunity" where exploits become fairly useless to bad actors.
  - weswpg 6y ago
    That's not the problem, it's that the update can't be done in the background. On iPad or iPhone, when I get an update, it installs overnight and my device is immediately available to use after restarting. On every Windows device I've ever had since Windows 8, I have to sit there and wait for some reason. (I've already selected the 'use my sign-in information to speed up...' option) Every single time that Windows updates, there is no way to get it to perform the entire process when I'm not using the device. As soon as I restart or log in, there is more lengthy 'configuration' or 'working on updates' to be done. It's unacceptable.
IggleSniggle 6y ago
This thread is very timely, as I'm looking to switch from macOS to Linux, and I tried years ago, but was turned off by difficulties getting the keyboard setup the way I wanted it. One of my favorite macOS applications is "ShortCat", which allows you to chord a shortcut (cmd-shift-space) and gives you a "GUI search" wherein any text that is on the screen (on any monitor) becomes selectable by typing it and choosing a selection...kind of like the way Vimium works in the browser, but for your multi-application context. I am comfortable with vim bindings generally but don't really care as long as there is consistency (pre-baked preferable, but configurable works). I've tried Linux years and years ago and my biggest gripe was that there was no unified "system" for handling setup of keyboard shortcuts / macros. "One system to rule them all" would be ideal, or at least "one system for each context layer, consistent between applications." I am getting option paralysis since I know there will be a learning curve, and I don't want to spend a lot of time customizing just to find that the distro I picked is not going to meet my needs without a ton of deep customization. What Linux distro and/or window manager is going to get me multi-monitor HiDPI support with good keyboard-only navigation? From lurking HN i3 looks like it might be favored in my situation? I want a workflow that allows me to easily jump from window-context to window-context, tab-to-tab, sub-window to sub-window, independent of monitor or applications. I would consider something minimal like NixOS or Arch if someone could recommend a good playbook/setup for someone like me, and Manjaro and Pop_OS both look cool, but otherwise will probably default to Ubuntu for beginner google-fu.
- SweetestRug 6y ago
  I run both Manjaro on my laptop and PopOS on my workstation, and highly recommend both as great options to someone coming from MacOS like I did. PopOS on System76 hardware is very much like MacOS on Apple hardware in that things just work and you can get three years of great tech support. I've run Pop on other machines and it just works well. Manjaro is a blast because you always have the latest software and the installation is easy. While Ubuntu is perhaps an easy default, I can't really recommend 20.04 with the same enthusiasm as Pop 20.04 or the latest Manjaro release, as I have seen a lot of folks have problems. Try out PopOS - you really won't be disappointed, and will probably be delighted like I was.
chopin 6y ago
- a bunch of choices of really good backup apps. I never got this running well on Windows.

by q3k 6y ago

DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago

> Windows is mouse-centric to be point of being unusable to me I find that very relateable. I have gotten used to doing everything with my keyboard and windows just doesn't allow that to the same extent.

bootlooped 6y ago
Can you give some examples? I've found it to be pretty good with the basic stuff like switching applications or workspaces, snapping windows to the left or right half of the screen, opening and closing arbitrary things. I can think of some ways I'd like it to be better though, like making the left/right halves arbitrary sizes with the keyboard.
- DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
  I have yet to figure out how I can quickly move one window to another workspace in windows. Under mint, I just do Ctrl+Alt+Sfit+H/L to move a window to the previous or next workspace. I also have Windows+T mapped to open a terminal, which I do everything in these days.
  - masonic 6y ago
    ALT-TAB doesn't do what you want?
- q3k 6y ago
  I very often use complex window layouts [1], not just side-by-side. The fact that I can ask my window manager to arrange them for me, in the way I want, without having to drag them, and without them ever overlapping, and without wasting screen space on useless window decorations, is something I'm just too used to to switch back to the way Windows would have me manually arrange and resize them. [1] - https://q3k.org/u/96613e57e6d630e35c8872f2fe970331fa327cd50143aae26f389ad927af7f42.png https://q3k.org/u/96613e57e6d630e35c8872f2fe970331fa327cd501...
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    There are tiling window managers for Windows. I know because I am making one :)
de_watcher 6y ago
Windows is mouse-centric but you've got to install stuff to get middle-click paste working.
wayneftw 6y ago
You can actually operate the entirety of Windows UI with just the keyboard. That's one reason why the great majority of handicapped users use Windows and not macOS or Linux.
- rcarmo 6y ago
  Actually, it’s a lot more about standardization and pricing. Apple’s assistive tech is excellent.

TheGrassyKnoll 6y ago

> "- system update when I want it,..." Windows ramming its updates down my throat whenever they feel like it is totally unacceptable among other things.

Exmoor 6y ago
Mandated, automatic updates have their downsides, especially for some of the HN crowd, but for 99% of the population I really appreciate that patching is automatic for the other 95%+ of users. Getting the vast majority of computers in world quickly up to current security patches protects users and creates something akin to "herd immunity" where exploits become fairly useless to bad actors.
- weswpg 6y ago
  That's not the problem, it's that the update can't be done in the background. On iPad or iPhone, when I get an update, it installs overnight and my device is immediately available to use after restarting. On every Windows device I've ever had since Windows 8, I have to sit there and wait for some reason. (I've already selected the 'use my sign-in information to speed up...' option) Every single time that Windows updates, there is no way to get it to perform the entire process when I'm not using the device. As soon as I restart or log in, there is more lengthy 'configuration' or 'working on updates' to be done. It's unacceptable.

IggleSniggle 6y ago

This thread is very timely, as I'm looking to switch from macOS to Linux, and I tried years ago, but was turned off by difficulties getting the keyboard setup the way I wanted it. One of my favorite macOS applications is "ShortCat", which allows you to chord a shortcut (cmd-shift-space) and gives you a "GUI search" wherein any text that is on the screen (on any monitor) becomes selectable by typing it and choosing a selection...kind of like the way Vimium works in the browser, but for your multi-application context. I am comfortable with vim bindings generally but don't really care as long as there is consistency (pre-baked preferable, but configurable works). I've tried Linux years and years ago and my biggest gripe was that there was no unified "system" for handling setup of keyboard shortcuts / macros. "One system to rule them all" would be ideal, or at least "one system for each context layer, consistent between applications." I am getting option paralysis since I know there will be a learning curve, and I don't want to spend a lot of time customizing just to find that the distro I picked is not going to meet my needs without a ton of deep customization. What Linux distro and/or window manager is going to get me multi-monitor HiDPI support with good keyboard-only navigation? From lurking HN i3 looks like it might be favored in my situation? I want a workflow that allows me to easily jump from window-context to window-context, tab-to-tab, sub-window to sub-window, independent of monitor or applications. I would consider something minimal like NixOS or Arch if someone could recommend a good playbook/setup for someone like me, and Manjaro and Pop_OS both look cool, but otherwise will probably default to Ubuntu for beginner google-fu.

SweetestRug 6y ago
I run both Manjaro on my laptop and PopOS on my workstation, and highly recommend both as great options to someone coming from MacOS like I did. PopOS on System76 hardware is very much like MacOS on Apple hardware in that things just work and you can get three years of great tech support. I've run Pop on other machines and it just works well. Manjaro is a blast because you always have the latest software and the installation is easy. While Ubuntu is perhaps an easy default, I can't really recommend 20.04 with the same enthusiasm as Pop 20.04 or the latest Manjaro release, as I have seen a lot of folks have problems. Try out PopOS - you really won't be disappointed, and will probably be delighted like I was.

chopin 6y ago

- a bunch of choices of really good backup apps. I never got this running well on Windows.