6 ms·

After being Linux exclusive on my personal laptop(s) for over a decade, I just went back to Windows + WSL 2. With WSL 2, there's very little reason to use Linu

by sfifs 6y ago

After being Linux exclusive on my personal laptop(s) for over a decade, I just went back to Windows + WSL 2. With WSL 2, there's very little reason to use Linux desktop any more. The windows cleartype, touchpad driver and sleep work a lot better while giving you a regular Linux environment and you don't have to dual boot to get Office and creative software

linuxftw 6y ago
> After being Linux exclusive on my personal laptop(s) for over a decade You're an important part of the community that can help report bugs during installation, boot up, drivers, etc. Consider switching back to help grow the community.
- voqv 6y ago
  It happens rarely, I must admit, but nothing tops the linux community feeling when a vendor marks your driver issue with "won't-fix"
  - DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
    The windows equivalent would probably be declaring it a feature.
squidofbits 6y ago
Apart from the fact Linux has total customisability, a working search function, doesn't spy on its users, has programs to run Windows apps, isn't anti-consumer, and of course is free.
- sfifs 6y ago
  Maybe you missed the part where I said I was Linux exclusive for a decade plus. For me the trade-offs aren't worth it anymore - I'm mainly interested in a Linux programming environment. I'm sure the trade-offs are different for others.
  - de_watcher 6y ago
    Linux programming environment is a desktop distribution. Maybe WSL has some part of it, but a VM is a VM.
    - zihotki 6y ago
      > VM is a VM If it runs fast so you can barely notice any difference with WSL2, does it really matters?
      - de_watcher 6y ago
        Hardware abstraction. AFAIK WSL2 also even uses a non-standard init system.
q3k 6y ago
> With WSL 2, there's very little reason to use Linux desktop any more. My personal reasons to stick to Linux: - my DE is fully keyboard-driven (Windows is mouse-centric to be point of being unusable to me) - better support for complex networking (NAT, multiple route tables/VRFs/netnses, etc - just last week I had to run my entire network uplink through USB tethering, which was a breeze on Linux) - system update when I want it, zero system-mandated reboots - easy debuggability of software failures (Windows, when fails, is a black box and your only option to fix things is to enter black magic commands from random forum threads - without possibility of actually understanding what failed, looking at source code, etc) - no feeling of always fighting against malicious, privacy-disrespecting software (it's not that I can't disable ads and tracking, but I really don't want to have to do that)
- DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
  > Windows is mouse-centric to be point of being unusable to me I find that very relateable. I have gotten used to doing everything with my keyboard and windows just doesn't allow that to the same extent.
  - bootlooped 6y ago
    Can you give some examples? I've found it to be pretty good with the basic stuff like switching applications or workspaces, snapping windows to the left or right half of the screen, opening and closing arbitrary things. I can think of some ways I'd like it to be better though, like making the left/right halves arbitrary sizes with the keyboard.
    - DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
      I have yet to figure out how I can quickly move one window to another workspace in windows. Under mint, I just do Ctrl+Alt+Sfit+H/L to move a window to the previous or next workspace. I also have Windows+T mapped to open a terminal, which I do everything in these days.
      - 6y ago
Koshkin 6y ago
> little reason to use Linux desktop Well, that was the idea, looks like.
alpaca128 6y ago
> The windows cleartype, touchpad driver and sleep work a lot better On my ThinkPad the official touchpad driver for Windows is worse than the default one on Linux. And sleep/suspend does not work reliably on Windows 10 since it may wake up your PC at any time and run a system update, closing your session in the process. I still find forced updates unacceptable and nothing will change that. There's not much I hate more than software that tries to act smart. It always backfires in some way.
- ToFab123 6y ago
  What do you mean by "official touchpad driver"? Official = IBM / Lenovo? You should look into if you have the official Microsoft touchpad driver aka Microsoft Precision Touchpad Driver as that is much better than any third party driver. https://www.howtogeek.com/325347/how-to-enable-microsofts-precision-touchpad-drivers-on-your-laptop/ https://www.howtogeek.com/325347/how-to-enable-microsofts-pr...
  - pantalaimon 6y ago
    On Windows the middle mouse button on the TrackPoint will either work as middle mouse button or for scrolling. I have to change the config to switch between the two modes. On Linux it just works™ like it should. Creates a middle mouse click when clicked, scrolls when I drag the TrackPoint.
    - fomine3 6y ago
      It should be solved by using Lenovo's driver.
bananicorn 6y ago
Maybe it's just your use case - but I've just switched someone over to Linux and it seems to be suiting them much better than Windows - granted they're running older hardware, but we would've had to throw that laptop away otherwise, as Windows 10 is absolute garbage when installed on an HDD. The person in question was really quite attached to their Laptop and after a failed HDD, we just took another one we had lying around, tried to save Windows (but to no avail), and finally decided to put LinuxLite [1] on it. People who mostly utilize a browser in their day-to-day computer usage don't have any advantage in using Windows whatsoever. I haven't yet used Linux for that long, (only around two years as may daily driver) but I can't imagine ever going back to Windows, except for very few select games, which aren't yet supported natively or via Proton/Wine. And I keep hearing about the touchpad driver issue, but I really can't find a single difference between my Windows and Linux boxes, maybe I'm not sensitive enough, or have much lower standards in that regard, I really can't tell. Sure, Windows Office and some Adobe software isn't there yet when used via Wine, I'll give you that. I personally do just fine with Blender, Gimp and Inkscape on the graphics front. I can't speak for the usability of the Libre-office suite, but it's done the job for the few times I had to use it. [1]https://www.linuxliteos.com/ https://www.linuxliteos.com/
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > People who mostly utilize a browser in their day-to-day computer usage don't have any advantage in using Windows whatsoever. I would agree with that, but then they also don't have any advantage in using a Linux Desktop when any web-kiosk Chromebook or tablet would do.
spdy 6y ago
Went the same route with WSL2 as nearly everything i need for my daily programming tasks just works and having windows just an alt+tab away for games / office etc. makes it more pleasant to use. Maybe i`m just getting old and dual booting etc. isn`t my thing anymore but i don`t see myself setting up another distro anytime soon after 20 years. WSL2 for me is the arrival of the Linux desktop.
quaffapint 6y ago
I'm a Windows guy, but after switching my newer Lenovo Flex 5 laptop to Linux Mint, I am amazed how well it functions. Everything just worked, even my touchscreen. The battery lasts a good 20-30% longer and the fan isn't running nearly as much. I still dual boot into Windows occasionally to do updates, but so far I am impressed how far desktop Linux has come.
mekoka 6y ago
I've also used Linux on the desktop for over a decade, and I have to use Windows 10 at work every day. In my experience, Windows is still not Linux. I don't know what kind of laptops you've had to run Linux on, but my desktop experience has generally been much better than on Windows. Sure you have the occasional tussle with things that don't work at install (although it's getting better). But once things are set up you don't have to fiddle so much anymore and it's usually smooth sailing from then on. Things just work. I don't want to get into details about what's missing, although I could go on for a while on that. I'll only share one small use-case. Linux spoils you with the belief that you can just set up your work environment once and find everything exactly where you left it. So imagine that you have 8 desktops and you've spread and organized things nice and tidy: browsing on Desktop1, work environment for app1 (git, log, tests, editor, etc) on D2, work environment for app2 on D3, media on D4, email on D5, experimental stuff on D6, on and on, you catch the drift. That setup out of the way, you can just show up and work on whatever you want, each day, every day, for months. Now the Windows experience. Everything works at install, but then you try to turn Windows into Linux, you tweak at it and you get maybe 80% of the way in. Not bad, you can get some work done. Then you're reminded of the Windows reality: the dreaded updates. You basically never stop updating. Firewall, antivirus, drivers, apps and rebooting. That's just one thing, I could go on with others (someone else pointed, no pun intended, with Windows obsession's with the mouse).

by sfifs 6y ago

linuxftw 6y ago

> After being Linux exclusive on my personal laptop(s) for over a decade You're an important part of the community that can help report bugs during installation, boot up, drivers, etc. Consider switching back to help grow the community.

voqv 6y ago
It happens rarely, I must admit, but nothing tops the linux community feeling when a vendor marks your driver issue with "won't-fix"
- DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
  The windows equivalent would probably be declaring it a feature.

squidofbits 6y ago

Apart from the fact Linux has total customisability, a working search function, doesn't spy on its users, has programs to run Windows apps, isn't anti-consumer, and of course is free.

sfifs 6y ago
Maybe you missed the part where I said I was Linux exclusive for a decade plus. For me the trade-offs aren't worth it anymore - I'm mainly interested in a Linux programming environment. I'm sure the trade-offs are different for others.
- de_watcher 6y ago
  Linux programming environment is a desktop distribution. Maybe WSL has some part of it, but a VM is a VM.
  - zihotki 6y ago
    > VM is a VM If it runs fast so you can barely notice any difference with WSL2, does it really matters?
    - de_watcher 6y ago
      Hardware abstraction. AFAIK WSL2 also even uses a non-standard init system.

q3k 6y ago

> With WSL 2, there's very little reason to use Linux desktop any more. My personal reasons to stick to Linux: - my DE is fully keyboard-driven (Windows is mouse-centric to be point of being unusable to me) - better support for complex networking (NAT, multiple route tables/VRFs/netnses, etc - just last week I had to run my entire network uplink through USB tethering, which was a breeze on Linux) - system update when I want it, zero system-mandated reboots - easy debuggability of software failures (Windows, when fails, is a black box and your only option to fix things is to enter black magic commands from random forum threads - without possibility of actually understanding what failed, looking at source code, etc) - no feeling of always fighting against malicious, privacy-disrespecting software (it's not that I can't disable ads and tracking, but I really don't want to have to do that)

DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
> Windows is mouse-centric to be point of being unusable to me I find that very relateable. I have gotten used to doing everything with my keyboard and windows just doesn't allow that to the same extent.
- bootlooped 6y ago
  Can you give some examples? I've found it to be pretty good with the basic stuff like switching applications or workspaces, snapping windows to the left or right half of the screen, opening and closing arbitrary things. I can think of some ways I'd like it to be better though, like making the left/right halves arbitrary sizes with the keyboard.
  - DarkWiiPlayer 6y ago
    I have yet to figure out how I can quickly move one window to another workspace in windows. Under mint, I just do Ctrl+Alt+Sfit+H/L to move a window to the previous or next workspace. I also have Windows+T mapped to open a terminal, which I do everything in these days.
    - 6y ago

Koshkin 6y ago

> little reason to use Linux desktop Well, that was the idea, looks like.

alpaca128 6y ago

> The windows cleartype, touchpad driver and sleep work a lot better On my ThinkPad the official touchpad driver for Windows is worse than the default one on Linux. And sleep/suspend does not work reliably on Windows 10 since it may wake up your PC at any time and run a system update, closing your session in the process. I still find forced updates unacceptable and nothing will change that. There's not much I hate more than software that tries to act smart. It always backfires in some way.

ToFab123 6y ago
What do you mean by "official touchpad driver"? Official = IBM / Lenovo? You should look into if you have the official Microsoft touchpad driver aka Microsoft Precision Touchpad Driver as that is much better than any third party driver. https://www.howtogeek.com/325347/how-to-enable-microsofts-precision-touchpad-drivers-on-your-laptop/ https://www.howtogeek.com/325347/how-to-enable-microsofts-pr...
- pantalaimon 6y ago
  On Windows the middle mouse button on the TrackPoint will either work as middle mouse button or for scrolling. I have to change the config to switch between the two modes. On Linux it just works™ like it should. Creates a middle mouse click when clicked, scrolls when I drag the TrackPoint.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    It should be solved by using Lenovo's driver.

bananicorn 6y ago

Maybe it's just your use case - but I've just switched someone over to Linux and it seems to be suiting them much better than Windows - granted they're running older hardware, but we would've had to throw that laptop away otherwise, as Windows 10 is absolute garbage when installed on an HDD. The person in question was really quite attached to their Laptop and after a failed HDD, we just took another one we had lying around, tried to save Windows (but to no avail), and finally decided to put LinuxLite [1] on it. People who mostly utilize a browser in their day-to-day computer usage don't have any advantage in using Windows whatsoever. I haven't yet used Linux for that long, (only around two years as may daily driver) but I can't imagine ever going back to Windows, except for very few select games, which aren't yet supported natively or via Proton/Wine. And I keep hearing about the touchpad driver issue, but I really can't find a single difference between my Windows and Linux boxes, maybe I'm not sensitive enough, or have much lower standards in that regard, I really can't tell. Sure, Windows Office and some Adobe software isn't there yet when used via Wine, I'll give you that. I personally do just fine with Blender, Gimp and Inkscape on the graphics front. I can't speak for the usability of the Libre-office suite, but it's done the job for the few times I had to use it. [1]https://www.linuxliteos.com/ https://www.linuxliteos.com/

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> People who mostly utilize a browser in their day-to-day computer usage don't have any advantage in using Windows whatsoever. I would agree with that, but then they also don't have any advantage in using a Linux Desktop when any web-kiosk Chromebook or tablet would do.

spdy 6y ago

Went the same route with WSL2 as nearly everything i need for my daily programming tasks just works and having windows just an alt+tab away for games / office etc. makes it more pleasant to use. Maybe i`m just getting old and dual booting etc. isn`t my thing anymore but i don`t see myself setting up another distro anytime soon after 20 years. WSL2 for me is the arrival of the Linux desktop.

quaffapint 6y ago

I'm a Windows guy, but after switching my newer Lenovo Flex 5 laptop to Linux Mint, I am amazed how well it functions. Everything just worked, even my touchscreen. The battery lasts a good 20-30% longer and the fan isn't running nearly as much. I still dual boot into Windows occasionally to do updates, but so far I am impressed how far desktop Linux has come.

mekoka 6y ago

I've also used Linux on the desktop for over a decade, and I have to use Windows 10 at work every day. In my experience, Windows is still not Linux. I don't know what kind of laptops you've had to run Linux on, but my desktop experience has generally been much better than on Windows. Sure you have the occasional tussle with things that don't work at install (although it's getting better). But once things are set up you don't have to fiddle so much anymore and it's usually smooth sailing from then on. Things just work. I don't want to get into details about what's missing, although I could go on for a while on that. I'll only share one small use-case. Linux spoils you with the belief that you can just set up your work environment once and find everything exactly where you left it. So imagine that you have 8 desktops and you've spread and organized things nice and tidy: browsing on Desktop1, work environment for app1 (git, log, tests, editor, etc) on D2, work environment for app2 on D3, media on D4, email on D5, experimental stuff on D6, on and on, you catch the drift. That setup out of the way, you can just show up and work on whatever you want, each day, every day, for months. Now the Windows experience. Everything works at install, but then you try to turn Windows into Linux, you tweak at it and you get maybe 80% of the way in. Not bad, you can get some work done. Then you're reminded of the Windows reality: the dreaded updates. You basically never stop updating. Firewall, antivirus, drivers, apps and rebooting. That's just one thing, I could go on with others (someone else pointed, no pun intended, with Windows obsession's with the mouse).