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Hong Kong security chief warns of growing terrorism backing planned security law

60 points by partingshots 6y ago

redis_mlc 6y ago
> "Terrorism is growing in the city and activities which harm national security, such as ‘Hong Kong independence’, become more rampant," Secretary for Security John Lee said in a statement. Well, at least the CCP is consistent.
throwaway1997 6y ago
The irony being that this so-called terrorism is in reaction to clamping down of freedoms and arbitrarily adding national security laws into the Basic Law. I want to know who falls for this nonsense.
scoot_718 6y ago
CCP is using terror to inflict its policies counter too the wishes of the HK people.
rorykoehler 6y ago
>“In just a few months, Hong Kong has changed from one of the safest cities in the world to a city shrouded in the shadow of violence,” he said, adding national security laws were needed to safeguard the city’s prosperity and stability. Absurd lack of introspection. What change was the catalyst for violence? Maybe start there and work backwards to see who is actually responsible (hint... it's the CCP).
- dragonsh 6y ago
  Hong Kong is a territory of China and they have a right to enact this law based on perceived threat to national security because this will not be the first time USA used others shoulders to fire gun. China don’t want to make same mistake as USSR of ignoring the outside influence and USA succeeding in its mission to thwart another rising power with a different system like USS dream of Mikhail Gorbachev was broken by similar kind of violent protests. China learned from mistakes of USSR and worked to let the economic benefits trickle down to general population and their people’s life is better than before. I agree they could have treated minorities better and given more rights but looking at conditions of minority in most democratic nation its a worldwide problem. So do a better introspection and you will notice that answer for this violence and protest is very much linked to geopolitical rivalry especially with USA. There is an uncanny timings that Hong Kong protests flared up quite dramatically right before Taiwan elections, and then suddenly reduced in intensity.
2019-nCoV 6y ago
What's pushing China from hiding their capacities and biding their time? Why push the world on this now than wait until 2047? Awfully, it looks like Xi thinks China's time has come.
- joaomacp 6y ago
  He knows China is powerful enough to do this without meaningful consequences. Taiwan not yet, but soon.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > He knows China is powerful enough to do this without meaningful consequences. Taiwan not yet, but soon. Unlike Hong Kong, Taiwan has (thinly veiled) US military Support [1] that would put China in defacto WWIII territory should an attack occur--after this COVID coverup, the CCP and Xi are persona non grata on the international stage. If anything I hope the people of the Mainland realize the dystopia they have created (some do, most are too conditioned) and revolt before that happens as the CCP seems amendment for a suicidal act if they continue with such brazen violence in the area. They've already pissed off every neighbor in the South China Sea which is essentially opening the doors for more US military bases and interventionism--which I abhor, but recognize as a reality. 1: https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/us-military-support-taiwan-whats-changed-under-trump https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/us-military-support-taiwan-what...
- Robin_Message 6y ago
  I wonder if they worry about other areas of China asking for or demanding the same freedoms and democracy as Hong Kong. "Because it used to be a British colony" doesn't feel like a good justification for massive variations in internal political systems for the people on the wrong side of the border.
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    Only HK nativism, violence and separatism gets filtered through domestic Chinese media. What most mainlanders see are dumb kids protecting their "privileges" by burning down their own city and appealing to foreign powers to intervene (aka treason). The protests has staunched appetite for western values and systems in the mainland, solidified by how poor most western countries have responded to covid. I guess framed that way it's sad that mainlanders would rather strip HK freedoms than ask for their own, but the reality is, HK protesters are viewed as exploiting privileges bestowed through lottery of birth, to undermine the rest of the country, so maybe such privileges are not worth having en-mass in the first place. The justification is HK has been dragging their feet on implementing required National Security legislation. There was no set deadline, I think it was left open ended to easy transition. But it's been 23 years. Despite efforts ongoing for the past 10, now the sentiment at the top is they focused too long on 2 systems instead of 1 country. For the CCP, it's ridiculous they have no extradition process with a region under it's control, especially for recent "anti-state" actions. This was recognized a long time ago, hence the efforts at patriotic education and national security law ~10 years ago because the idea of identity and cultural divergence was a risk to longterm integration. Same with Uyghurs and Tibetans. Best to crush the lost generation now and start again.
culturestate 6y ago
As a longtime Hong Kong resident, the worst part about this for me is the abject intellectual dishonesty - we already know that this is the real[1] beginning of the end of Hong Kong's autonomy, so they could at least have the decency to be straight with us. CY Leung (the previous Chief Executive) said[2] the quiet part out loud yesterday: > "Former Chief Executive CY Leung acknowledged on Sunday that Hong Kong’s annual June 4 candlelight vigil could be banned, along with the group that has organised the event for the past three decades, under a new national security law for the SAR to be drawn up by Beijing." Putting that kind of censorship on the table is antithetical to the spirit of OC2S and the foundations that make Hong Kong great. 1. The Causeway Bay booksellers were a foreshock. 2. https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1528043-20200524.htm https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1528043-20200524.h...
- yaus831 6y ago
  Hong Kong resident here as well, I am in no way CY Leung nor Carrie Lam fan. I am pro peaceful demonstration and believe police brutality is real and support independent inquiry. But this is not exactly his quote when you read further than the first paragraph: "Asked if slogans like “end one-party rule” – which is often chanted at the June 4 vigil – would be allowed in future, Leung demurred, saying there’s no need to get into the nitty gritty of legal definitions at this point, as this could ‘affect public feelings’ about the coming legislation." "He also said whether the vigil itself could fall foul of the law could depend on what participants do even after the gathering is over – saying that anything that involves activities that are ‘separatist in nature’ may well be banned even in other countries." He evaded the question when asked about the "end one-party rule" slogans, and repeat the line "separatist" will be banned when ask about the vigil. Do I believe "end one-party rule" slogan will cause problem? I think so, and I do not support arresting people for just yelling the "end one-party rule" slogan. But I would like to see the detail of the law before I draw any conclusion.
  - culturestate 6y ago
    I understand the nuance of his answer, but in my view the acknowledgement that something like that could even be possible is a tacit admission that this is not intended as an emergency fallback to be used only when absolutely necessary. The smart response to that question (not that he had the best political instinct to begin with, but...) would've been the same kind of non-answer Carrie Lam gives: we cherish Hong Kong's freedom of speech, et cetera. But he didn't say that, and even he has to know that answering the way he did will ring alarm bells. Talking up the need for legislation to address homemade bombs and property destruction is one thing; curtailing political speech in the name of security is quite another.
gentleman11 6y ago
Hong Kong is the frontier of the fight for freedom against autocracy. I hope the news continues to cover it
- mrcorona 6y ago
  HK is a US and UK mission to have a permanent colony in China. We can't really rebrand this exercise with any honest look at history.
gremlinsinc 6y ago
I don't think they know what 'terrorism' means. Civil disobedience because of rights being usurped !== terrorism, it === a probably futile but admirable 'attempt' to fight back at an oppressive regime.

60 points by partingshots 6y ago

> "Terrorism is growing in the city and activities which harm national security, such as ‘Hong Kong independence’, become more rampant," Secretary for Security John Lee said in a statement. Well, at least the CCP is consistent.

throwaway1997 6y ago

The irony being that this so-called terrorism is in reaction to clamping down of freedoms and arbitrarily adding national security laws into the Basic Law. I want to know who falls for this nonsense.

scoot_718 6y ago

CCP is using terror to inflict its policies counter too the wishes of the HK people.

rorykoehler 6y ago

>“In just a few months, Hong Kong has changed from one of the safest cities in the world to a city shrouded in the shadow of violence,” he said, adding national security laws were needed to safeguard the city’s prosperity and stability. Absurd lack of introspection. What change was the catalyst for violence? Maybe start there and work backwards to see who is actually responsible (hint... it's the CCP).

dragonsh 6y ago
Hong Kong is a territory of China and they have a right to enact this law based on perceived threat to national security because this will not be the first time USA used others shoulders to fire gun. China don’t want to make same mistake as USSR of ignoring the outside influence and USA succeeding in its mission to thwart another rising power with a different system like USS dream of Mikhail Gorbachev was broken by similar kind of violent protests. China learned from mistakes of USSR and worked to let the economic benefits trickle down to general population and their people’s life is better than before. I agree they could have treated minorities better and given more rights but looking at conditions of minority in most democratic nation its a worldwide problem. So do a better introspection and you will notice that answer for this violence and protest is very much linked to geopolitical rivalry especially with USA. There is an uncanny timings that Hong Kong protests flared up quite dramatically right before Taiwan elections, and then suddenly reduced in intensity.

2019-nCoV 6y ago

What's pushing China from hiding their capacities and biding their time? Why push the world on this now than wait until 2047? Awfully, it looks like Xi thinks China's time has come.

joaomacp 6y ago
He knows China is powerful enough to do this without meaningful consequences. Taiwan not yet, but soon.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > He knows China is powerful enough to do this without meaningful consequences. Taiwan not yet, but soon. Unlike Hong Kong, Taiwan has (thinly veiled) US military Support [1] that would put China in defacto WWIII territory should an attack occur--after this COVID coverup, the CCP and Xi are persona non grata on the international stage. If anything I hope the people of the Mainland realize the dystopia they have created (some do, most are too conditioned) and revolt before that happens as the CCP seems amendment for a suicidal act if they continue with such brazen violence in the area. They've already pissed off every neighbor in the South China Sea which is essentially opening the doors for more US military bases and interventionism--which I abhor, but recognize as a reality. 1: https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/us-military-support-taiwan-whats-changed-under-trump https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/us-military-support-taiwan-what...
Robin_Message 6y ago
I wonder if they worry about other areas of China asking for or demanding the same freedoms and democracy as Hong Kong. "Because it used to be a British colony" doesn't feel like a good justification for massive variations in internal political systems for the people on the wrong side of the border.
- dirtyid 6y ago
  Only HK nativism, violence and separatism gets filtered through domestic Chinese media. What most mainlanders see are dumb kids protecting their "privileges" by burning down their own city and appealing to foreign powers to intervene (aka treason). The protests has staunched appetite for western values and systems in the mainland, solidified by how poor most western countries have responded to covid. I guess framed that way it's sad that mainlanders would rather strip HK freedoms than ask for their own, but the reality is, HK protesters are viewed as exploiting privileges bestowed through lottery of birth, to undermine the rest of the country, so maybe such privileges are not worth having en-mass in the first place. The justification is HK has been dragging their feet on implementing required National Security legislation. There was no set deadline, I think it was left open ended to easy transition. But it's been 23 years. Despite efforts ongoing for the past 10, now the sentiment at the top is they focused too long on 2 systems instead of 1 country. For the CCP, it's ridiculous they have no extradition process with a region under it's control, especially for recent "anti-state" actions. This was recognized a long time ago, hence the efforts at patriotic education and national security law ~10 years ago because the idea of identity and cultural divergence was a risk to longterm integration. Same with Uyghurs and Tibetans. Best to crush the lost generation now and start again.

culturestate 6y ago

As a longtime Hong Kong resident, the worst part about this for me is the abject intellectual dishonesty - we already know that this is the real[1] beginning of the end of Hong Kong's autonomy, so they could at least have the decency to be straight with us. CY Leung (the previous Chief Executive) said[2] the quiet part out loud yesterday: > "Former Chief Executive CY Leung acknowledged on Sunday that Hong Kong’s annual June 4 candlelight vigil could be banned, along with the group that has organised the event for the past three decades, under a new national security law for the SAR to be drawn up by Beijing." Putting that kind of censorship on the table is antithetical to the spirit of OC2S and the foundations that make Hong Kong great. 1. The Causeway Bay booksellers were a foreshock. 2. https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1528043-20200524.htm https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1528043-20200524.h...

yaus831 6y ago
Hong Kong resident here as well, I am in no way CY Leung nor Carrie Lam fan. I am pro peaceful demonstration and believe police brutality is real and support independent inquiry. But this is not exactly his quote when you read further than the first paragraph: "Asked if slogans like “end one-party rule” – which is often chanted at the June 4 vigil – would be allowed in future, Leung demurred, saying there’s no need to get into the nitty gritty of legal definitions at this point, as this could ‘affect public feelings’ about the coming legislation." "He also said whether the vigil itself could fall foul of the law could depend on what participants do even after the gathering is over – saying that anything that involves activities that are ‘separatist in nature’ may well be banned even in other countries." He evaded the question when asked about the "end one-party rule" slogans, and repeat the line "separatist" will be banned when ask about the vigil. Do I believe "end one-party rule" slogan will cause problem? I think so, and I do not support arresting people for just yelling the "end one-party rule" slogan. But I would like to see the detail of the law before I draw any conclusion.
- culturestate 6y ago
  I understand the nuance of his answer, but in my view the acknowledgement that something like that could even be possible is a tacit admission that this is not intended as an emergency fallback to be used only when absolutely necessary. The smart response to that question (not that he had the best political instinct to begin with, but...) would've been the same kind of non-answer Carrie Lam gives: we cherish Hong Kong's freedom of speech, et cetera. But he didn't say that, and even he has to know that answering the way he did will ring alarm bells. Talking up the need for legislation to address homemade bombs and property destruction is one thing; curtailing political speech in the name of security is quite another.

gentleman11 6y ago

Hong Kong is the frontier of the fight for freedom against autocracy. I hope the news continues to cover it

mrcorona 6y ago
HK is a US and UK mission to have a permanent colony in China. We can't really rebrand this exercise with any honest look at history.

gremlinsinc 6y ago

I don't think they know what 'terrorism' means. Civil disobedience because of rights being usurped !== terrorism, it === a probably futile but admirable 'attempt' to fight back at an oppressive regime.