4 ms·

I am russian and grew up there, this is why I genuinely wonder. Of course my experience in the West might be wildly different than yours. In the same way, maybe

by rr_aa 6y ago

I am russian and grew up there, this is why I genuinely wonder. Of course my experience in the West might be wildly different than yours. In the same way, maybe your experience in russia will be wildly different than mine, because starting as an expat right away instead of navigating russian society from the inside might be extremely different. I am curious to know and interested to hear your side of things.

igammarays 6y ago
Russia has changed a lot. The Soviet collapse and the subsequent 20 years were not easy, for sure, I can understand why you left. But now I'm reading a lot of reports and historical analysis written from inside Russia, like by Bill Browder, Gilbert Doctorow, Dominic Levien, and other Westerners with deep knowledge of Russia. There is a very different energy now since 2014 (the Crimea situation). And I've spent last 8 months living in Ukraine, including Mariupol and other areas close to the Russian border. I loved it. And as a person with the same "family values" and traditional Orthodox Christian mindset as Russians, I have an immediate affinity with them. I can understand why you wouldn't like Russia if you didn't have similar values. There are some Russians who look at Russia through Western eyes, and therefore they only see the bad. And indeed most of the world looks through Western eyes because of Hollywood, and that's why they see Russia as a pariah.
- rr_aa 6y ago
  I see your point. For sure, the country's situation changed a lot since the 90s. It is also very common to dismiss any russians who are critical of power to have "western eyes", as if you couldn't be russian and have issues with your government. This mentality was already present in soviet times. You seem to say that you gain immediate affinity with russians for having the same "orthodox" mindset, yet you are ready to dismiss any russian that doesnt think like you expect them to as "not really russian". People in russia are varied, just like everywhere else, there is just one voice which overpowers all the discourse. Edit : I don't think people who criticise their country see "only the bad". They criticise because they care, so they probably see the good as well, what do you think?
  - igammarays 6y ago
    I just meant to say that the majority of the world is tuned into the Western media machine, including Russians, so they have a tendency to evaluate every country based on Western metrics such as GDP-per-capita and LGBTQ-friendliness. I think these statistics are misleading because they fail to capture a lot of the nuance and quality of life that is found in Eastern Europe and elsewhere in the world. But sure, there is a lot of rah-rah Russian patriotism, just like there is a lot of rah-rah American patriotism. But there are also blatant lies in the Western media narrative about Russia. For example, the West claims that Putin's "regime" suppresses all alternative viewpoints. However, from spending a lot of time watching Russian media, including official TV channels like Russiya-1, and YouTube standup comedians like Данила Поперечный [1], and seeing memes on Russian social media, I see a lot of diverse anti-government voices in the Russian landscape, which are NOT suppressed. Actually, I find the Western landscape to be more suppressed. Try to be pro-Russian, for example, and see what happens in America. I find the Russian political landscape, including social media, to be more educated, informed, reasonable, diverse, and intellectual compared to the Trumpian world of American politics. I personally evaluate Russia using metrics that they value, such as family values. I am not even Christian, I am Muslim, but I have very similar values. But I find that even Russians who are not Christian are still more understanding of my family values than Westerners who look at me like a backwards idiot. In that sense I actually find greater tolerance in Eastern Europe. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=387&v=IfTlqfHq1d8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=387&v=IfTlqfHq1d...
    - rr_aa 6y ago
      This is interesting, I can definitely see how being muslim in the West can lead to being judged negatively, and the parallel whith how eastern europe tends to be perceived sometimes. I have been myself quite surprised by how Americans or Europeans seem to think that eastern europe is backwards on every level based on how they judge russian government. One stupid example is : someone believed that all soviet made devices were bad quality, when actually a lot were manifactured without the idea of planned obsolescence built-in, which made them very durable. But they had a bias for everything russian being shitty because it is supposed to be a backwards country, and didnt consider different metrics to evaluate things. I largely agree that there is a huge amount of caricature being made about russia, but I would also argue that the government is partly at fault for that because of the monolithic image they try to project. They erase all nuance about russian people and life in the country on purpose.

by rr_aa 6y ago

igammarays 6y ago

Russia has changed a lot. The Soviet collapse and the subsequent 20 years were not easy, for sure, I can understand why you left. But now I'm reading a lot of reports and historical analysis written from inside Russia, like by Bill Browder, Gilbert Doctorow, Dominic Levien, and other Westerners with deep knowledge of Russia. There is a very different energy now since 2014 (the Crimea situation). And I've spent last 8 months living in Ukraine, including Mariupol and other areas close to the Russian border. I loved it. And as a person with the same "family values" and traditional Orthodox Christian mindset as Russians, I have an immediate affinity with them. I can understand why you wouldn't like Russia if you didn't have similar values. There are some Russians who look at Russia through Western eyes, and therefore they only see the bad. And indeed most of the world looks through Western eyes because of Hollywood, and that's why they see Russia as a pariah.

rr_aa 6y ago
I see your point. For sure, the country's situation changed a lot since the 90s. It is also very common to dismiss any russians who are critical of power to have "western eyes", as if you couldn't be russian and have issues with your government. This mentality was already present in soviet times. You seem to say that you gain immediate affinity with russians for having the same "orthodox" mindset, yet you are ready to dismiss any russian that doesnt think like you expect them to as "not really russian". People in russia are varied, just like everywhere else, there is just one voice which overpowers all the discourse. Edit : I don't think people who criticise their country see "only the bad". They criticise because they care, so they probably see the good as well, what do you think?
- igammarays 6y ago
  I just meant to say that the majority of the world is tuned into the Western media machine, including Russians, so they have a tendency to evaluate every country based on Western metrics such as GDP-per-capita and LGBTQ-friendliness. I think these statistics are misleading because they fail to capture a lot of the nuance and quality of life that is found in Eastern Europe and elsewhere in the world. But sure, there is a lot of rah-rah Russian patriotism, just like there is a lot of rah-rah American patriotism. But there are also blatant lies in the Western media narrative about Russia. For example, the West claims that Putin's "regime" suppresses all alternative viewpoints. However, from spending a lot of time watching Russian media, including official TV channels like Russiya-1, and YouTube standup comedians like Данила Поперечный [1], and seeing memes on Russian social media, I see a lot of diverse anti-government voices in the Russian landscape, which are NOT suppressed. Actually, I find the Western landscape to be more suppressed. Try to be pro-Russian, for example, and see what happens in America. I find the Russian political landscape, including social media, to be more educated, informed, reasonable, diverse, and intellectual compared to the Trumpian world of American politics. I personally evaluate Russia using metrics that they value, such as family values. I am not even Christian, I am Muslim, but I have very similar values. But I find that even Russians who are not Christian are still more understanding of my family values than Westerners who look at me like a backwards idiot. In that sense I actually find greater tolerance in Eastern Europe. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=387&v=IfTlqfHq1d8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=387&v=IfTlqfHq1d...
  - rr_aa 6y ago
    This is interesting, I can definitely see how being muslim in the West can lead to being judged negatively, and the parallel whith how eastern europe tends to be perceived sometimes. I have been myself quite surprised by how Americans or Europeans seem to think that eastern europe is backwards on every level based on how they judge russian government. One stupid example is : someone believed that all soviet made devices were bad quality, when actually a lot were manifactured without the idea of planned obsolescence built-in, which made them very durable. But they had a bias for everything russian being shitty because it is supposed to be a backwards country, and didnt consider different metrics to evaluate things. I largely agree that there is a huge amount of caricature being made about russia, but I would also argue that the government is partly at fault for that because of the monolithic image they try to project. They erase all nuance about russian people and life in the country on purpose.