5 ms·

Not weeks to minutes, but still, try writing an Airlines booking, scheduling application which gets the traveler the best route given his/her requirements.

by srean 6y ago

andi999 6y ago
Other people tried (and succeeded). Like Sabre (seems to be c++, but most is actually SQL it seems), or Amadeus. Well, what I mean: can you elaborate a bit more?
- pge 6y ago
  The reference is to ITA Software who wrote their code in lisp. The company was acquired by google. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA_Software https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA_Software
  - andi999 6y ago
    I am not doubting that Lisp is a language with which can be used to write succesful commercial applications. I am questioning the claim that it is vastly more productive for commercial applications. Of course it is not really possible to say how somebody else in a different language would have needed, so maybe a compromise would be to see some 'magical'lisp code examples.
    - srean 6y ago
      ITA software would definitely be worth looking at, but you would need to get hired by the right team. More details here http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html you can also glean more information by searching over older discussions about ITA on HN.
      - andi999 6y ago
        This is really interesting. I am amazed by the circumvention of the GC for large data; this thought would have never occured to me.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  If it runs on C++ now, it's been rewritten. Sabre predates C by many, many years and it almost predates Bjarne Stroustrup himself. I suspect a lot of it got moved to IBM assembly when they moved to S/360 mainframes in the early 70's. TPF is a descendant of that project.
  - rjsw 6y ago
    I interviewed for a job working on Sabre in the late 80s, I was told it was written in C.
    - rbanffy 6y ago
      I suppose it no longer runs on IBM mainframes either. The original 360 port was in assembly and a dialect of PL/1.
goto11 6y ago
That is just an algorithm, isn't it? I cant see how it would be simpler to implement in Lisp that Python. I suspect the issue is that a flight booking system is basically the only significant commercial system written in Lisp, which is why it is always dragged out in these discussions.
- lispm 6y ago
  The flight search was designed 20 years ago with the goal to disrupt mainframe-based flight search systems domain: Here is some background on that particular application: https://www.msri.org/people/members/sara/articles/airfares.pdf https://www.msri.org/people/members/sara/articles/airfares.p... http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html > I suspect the issue is that a flight booking system is basically the only significant commercial system written in Lisp How would you know that?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - goto11 6y ago
    The claim was that something which would take weeks in say Python would take minutes in Lisp. Then this flight search system is presented as evidence. I just don't see how it is any form of evidence for that rather extraordinary claim? It just shows it is possible to write complex software in Lisp, but I wasn't disputing that. I'm disputing the claim of 100 x productivity.
    - lispm 6y ago
      I was addressing your 'That is just an algorithm, isn't it?', in case you would be interested what that application is actually about. There was no general claim of 100x productivity. The commenter wrote: "I had a lisp master that did teach me that what had taken me weeks in c, c++ and python code he could do it in lisp in minutes" That was his personal impression, not a general claim. I can't also imagine how this could be a general claim.
- 6y ago

Not weeks to minutes, but still, try writing an Airlines booking, scheduling application which gets the traveler the best route given his/her requirements.

by srean 6y ago

Not weeks to minutes, but still, try writing an Airlines booking, scheduling application which gets the traveler the best route given his/her requirements.

andi999 6y ago

Other people tried (and succeeded). Like Sabre (seems to be c++, but most is actually SQL it seems), or Amadeus. Well, what I mean: can you elaborate a bit more?

pge 6y ago
The reference is to ITA Software who wrote their code in lisp. The company was acquired by google. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA_Software https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITA_Software
- andi999 6y ago
  I am not doubting that Lisp is a language with which can be used to write succesful commercial applications. I am questioning the claim that it is vastly more productive for commercial applications. Of course it is not really possible to say how somebody else in a different language would have needed, so maybe a compromise would be to see some 'magical'lisp code examples.
  - srean 6y ago
    ITA software would definitely be worth looking at, but you would need to get hired by the right team. More details here http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html you can also glean more information by searching over older discussions about ITA on HN.
    - andi999 6y ago
      This is really interesting. I am amazed by the circumvention of the GC for large data; this thought would have never occured to me.
rbanffy 6y ago
If it runs on C++ now, it's been rewritten. Sabre predates C by many, many years and it almost predates Bjarne Stroustrup himself. I suspect a lot of it got moved to IBM assembly when they moved to S/360 mainframes in the early 70's. TPF is a descendant of that project.
- rjsw 6y ago
  I interviewed for a job working on Sabre in the late 80s, I was told it was written in C.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    I suppose it no longer runs on IBM mainframes either. The original 360 port was in assembly and a dialect of PL/1.

goto11 6y ago

That is just an algorithm, isn't it? I cant see how it would be simpler to implement in Lisp that Python. I suspect the issue is that a flight booking system is basically the only significant commercial system written in Lisp, which is why it is always dragged out in these discussions.

lispm 6y ago
The flight search was designed 20 years ago with the goal to disrupt mainframe-based flight search systems domain: Here is some background on that particular application: https://www.msri.org/people/members/sara/articles/airfares.pdf https://www.msri.org/people/members/sara/articles/airfares.p... http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html > I suspect the issue is that a flight booking system is basically the only significant commercial system written in Lisp How would you know that?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- goto11 6y ago
  The claim was that something which would take weeks in say Python would take minutes in Lisp. Then this flight search system is presented as evidence. I just don't see how it is any form of evidence for that rather extraordinary claim? It just shows it is possible to write complex software in Lisp, but I wasn't disputing that. I'm disputing the claim of 100 x productivity.
  - lispm 6y ago
    I was addressing your 'That is just an algorithm, isn't it?', in case you would be interested what that application is actually about. There was no general claim of 100x productivity. The commenter wrote: "I had a lisp master that did teach me that what had taken me weeks in c, c++ and python code he could do it in lisp in minutes" That was his personal impression, not a general claim. I can't also imagine how this could be a general claim.
6y ago