4 ms·

I've heard, but have no way to prove, that Echelon allows domestic spying by arranging for member countries to collect data flows of the other member countries.

I've heard, but have no way to prove, that Echelon allows domestic spying by arranging for member countries to collect data flows of the other member countries. Presumably this is then shared by some agreement that falls outside what is left of the domestic wiretapping restrictions. Could be nonsense, but after learning that MKUltra was real, who knows anymore. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

iwwr 16y ago
The idea that they have the power to spy and don't use it, when they could and without consequences is a little hard to fathom. Besides, there is very little legally nowadays that is really off-limits in that area. And whatever may not be (like the AT&T spying scandal was), can quickly be covered by new laws (with bi-partisan support).
- uikjhgyujmn 16y ago
  The problem is who 'they' are The CIA/NSA etc spying on the US and UK's enemies? Or US companies spying on UK companies to gain a competitive advantage? If you were a BP boss would you be confident that they weren't handing your emails over to the Whitehouse during the gulf spill?
utunga 16y ago
I can pretty much confirm this is the case. I was told as much way back in 1996 at a job interview for the local part of (the what was then unnamed but now has probably changed its name again) Echelon network. (Run out of the GCSB in NZ). That is, it was explained to me that while we don't 'spy' on our citizens we supply as part of the partnership the ability for each member country to basically circumvent those restrictions because the entity doing the surveillance is actually a foreign government (all be it an ally). Not exactly in those terms but I was left in no doubt that that was how it worked. Of course if they told me that a job interview I imagine it was regarded as public knowledge.
- michaeldhopkins 16y ago
  Thank you for telling this.

iwwr 16y ago

The idea that they have the power to spy and don't use it, when they could and without consequences is a little hard to fathom. Besides, there is very little legally nowadays that is really off-limits in that area. And whatever may not be (like the AT&T spying scandal was), can quickly be covered by new laws (with bi-partisan support).

uikjhgyujmn 16y ago
The problem is who 'they' are The CIA/NSA etc spying on the US and UK's enemies? Or US companies spying on UK companies to gain a competitive advantage? If you were a BP boss would you be confident that they weren't handing your emails over to the Whitehouse during the gulf spill?

utunga 16y ago

I can pretty much confirm this is the case. I was told as much way back in 1996 at a job interview for the local part of (the what was then unnamed but now has probably changed its name again) Echelon network. (Run out of the GCSB in NZ). That is, it was explained to me that while we don't 'spy' on our citizens we supply as part of the partnership the ability for each member country to basically circumvent those restrictions because the entity doing the surveillance is actually a foreign government (all be it an ally). Not exactly in those terms but I was left in no doubt that that was how it worked. Of course if they told me that a job interview I imagine it was regarded as public knowledge.

michaeldhopkins 16y ago
Thank you for telling this.