3 ms·

What assures the trustworthiness of this RK3399 platform?

stonogo 6y ago
The same thing that "assures the trustworthiness" of every other computer ever made: nothing. What is the purpose of asking a question so vague as to be unanswerable?
- clarry 6y ago
  > What is the purpose Challenging a claim made by the previous poster?
- pinewurst 6y ago
  It's not "so vague as to be unanswerable". It's an explicit response to the implication that non-Intel/AMD systems somehow lack backdoors. What's the absolute proof that this laptop (or some future RISC-V based one) lacks a backdoor?
  - rowanG077 6y ago
    That question isn't better. Of course there is no absolute proof. That doesn't mean the situation isn't significantly better then on AMD/Intel.
CameronNemo 6y ago
1. Large portions of the firmware and bootloader are open source. RAM initialization currently requires a blob from rockchip, but that too may not be needed in the future. 2. The GPU is usable with open source graphics drivers. 3. There is no equivalent to the IME or PSP that is present on x86 platforms.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  3. ..not exactly, but it's open, so you could use it if you are able to use it :-) https://github.com/rockchip-linux/rk_tee_user/blob/develop-next/Notice.md https://github.com/rockchip-linux/rk_tee_user/blob/develop-n... https://github.com/OP-TEE https://github.com/OP-TEE https://www.op-tee.org/ https://www.op-tee.org/ https://optee.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ https://optee.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
antsoul 6y ago
My idea is that a pool of free-hardware computer can be used to build up some community networks and clusters of hardware sharing their resources. If you run a GNUnet node on a RISC-V router running seL4 [0] to log into your bank account, then it's pretty useless if your laptop runs an Intel CPU that access your keystrokes. Or if you use a cellphone. But with those RK3399 platform, it's another level of security. I'd say that the pinephone / pinebook will not ruin your potential for network security. And that the trust is defined by the fab, and thus if Pinestore (and their fabs... are they located in Shenzhen ?) is doubtful, at least their design is getting easier to copy and make a trustful version yourself. Also, I want GuixSD with GNU Hurd and seL4 sharing GPU resources for Vulkan rendering in the community. Not all this is ready yet, but I could never dream about it without the ARM phones/laptops/SoC. [0]https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/uk_sel4/ https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/uk_sel4/

The same thing that "assures the trustworthiness" of every other computer ever made: nothing. What is the purpose of asking a question so vague as to be unanswerable?

clarry 6y ago
> What is the purpose Challenging a claim made by the previous poster?
pinewurst 6y ago
It's not "so vague as to be unanswerable". It's an explicit response to the implication that non-Intel/AMD systems somehow lack backdoors. What's the absolute proof that this laptop (or some future RISC-V based one) lacks a backdoor?
- rowanG077 6y ago
  That question isn't better. Of course there is no absolute proof. That doesn't mean the situation isn't significantly better then on AMD/Intel.

CameronNemo 6y ago

1. Large portions of the firmware and bootloader are open source. RAM initialization currently requires a blob from rockchip, but that too may not be needed in the future. 2. The GPU is usable with open source graphics drivers. 3. There is no equivalent to the IME or PSP that is present on x86 platforms.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
3. ..not exactly, but it's open, so you could use it if you are able to use it :-) https://github.com/rockchip-linux/rk_tee_user/blob/develop-next/Notice.md https://github.com/rockchip-linux/rk_tee_user/blob/develop-n... https://github.com/OP-TEE https://github.com/OP-TEE https://www.op-tee.org/ https://www.op-tee.org/ https://optee.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ https://optee.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

antsoul 6y ago

My idea is that a pool of free-hardware computer can be used to build up some community networks and clusters of hardware sharing their resources. If you run a GNUnet node on a RISC-V router running seL4 [0] to log into your bank account, then it's pretty useless if your laptop runs an Intel CPU that access your keystrokes. Or if you use a cellphone. But with those RK3399 platform, it's another level of security. I'd say that the pinephone / pinebook will not ruin your potential for network security. And that the trust is defined by the fab, and thus if Pinestore (and their fabs... are they located in Shenzhen ?) is doubtful, at least their design is getting easier to copy and make a trustful version yourself. Also, I want GuixSD with GNU Hurd and seL4 sharing GPU resources for Vulkan rendering in the community. Not all this is ready yet, but I could never dream about it without the ARM phones/laptops/SoC. [0]https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/uk_sel4/ https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/uk_sel4/