7 ms·

I'm now wondering how common the two (or more?) types of book clubs in the wild are. I've always treated book clubs more like a shared class and get extremely

I'm now wondering how common the two (or more?) types of book clubs in the wild are. I've always treated book clubs more like a shared class and get extremely frustrated when someone shows up without reading the book/chapters ("they're just wasting everyone's time") or when conversation temporarily drifts to non-book-related topics. I go to book clubs for the insights and commentary I get on books from people with different life experiences, reading history, etc. There's plenty of other places you can go if you just want to be social. I've definitely seen more "social" book clubs, too. I just assumed they were "bad" or not serious, but I guess they're just targeted at people wanting something different out of the book club experience.

watwut 6y ago
> There's plenty of other places you can go if you just want to be social. There is not? People don't socialize without excuse and did not for years. People who want to socialize have to pick a hobby or interest and try there. It may be sport, bookclub, game, something technical, whatever, but it must be something.
- satvikpendem 6y ago
  What about going to a party? That is a purely social event without any hobby attached to it. Hell, you can find random parties to attend on Meetup or similar if you really wanted, which I've gone to.
  - ozim 6y ago
    If you are extrovert and you are OK with dozens of strangers around you it will work. If you have hard time getting along with random people and you need time to open up and get confident with others that is really bad idea. I think book club where mostly the same people who are also less outgoing is better option.
    - satvikpendem 6y ago
      That's understandable. I wish there were a way of separating these two types of book clubs then, a casual versus hardcore variety. I think by doing so, fewer people would be disappointed when it turns out to be the opposite variety of what they expected. Thanks for your viewpoint, it helped me understand the idea better.
      - OJFord 6y ago
        I don't think it's difficult? It's just in the way it's described. > Monthly social book club, not too serious, new faces always welcome. > Monthly book club exploring everything from X to Y with a focus on Z. Newcomers wanting a place to discuss how P Qs R with like-minded friends always welcome.
      - nemo 6y ago
        Book clubs are generally going to be fairly causal affairs since they're clubs. If you're looking for something serious find a study group or a book club that calls itself a study group. Book clubs are like many other clubs, where social bonding with the group is expected, and the book's an excuse to spend time socializing.
      - abnry 6y ago
        Seems you want a _book study_ not a _book club_. A club doesn't suggest to me a mode of intensity.
      - Moru 6y ago
        I expect you would feel very alone in the hard core book club. The socializing aspect with book clubs and any other hobby clubs are very high. Some people just looks around to find anything at all that helps them find someone to talk to, be it hobby train modelling, sewing or whatever. Book clubs are nothing special in that aspect. And most clubs are happy to get anyone, not just hardcore enthusiasts. Much like the church, they see it as an opportunity to sell their services.
    - Sevaris 6y ago
      As an introvert, I like going to parties. I get to meet new people and there's usually at least a couple of them who are interesting or hilarious or both. If you're socially anxious, then yeah, it might not be a great experience.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Somehow I think that party with strangers over meetup is not how majority of adults want to do things. The structure of club provides: 0.) Daytime activity so you get sleep and don't have to drink. 1.) Regular membership - meeting same people over and over again so that friendship can happen after months. 2.) Regular time and place so it is easy to add to schedule, agree with partner on who has kids and so on. 3.) Good fallback for when you dont fit in initially. Common topic. 4.) Safety. It is safer then party with strangers. 5.) Excuse. People need excuse to socialize. Socializing is seen as waste of time or as being bad parent. The club gives excuse for why you are not lazy for doing it.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    Many book clubs are a type of party... a quiet, low key, themed party around a book. What is wrong with people wanting to go to that type of party?
  - redisman 6y ago
    A party is the literal opposite of a bookclub. I just want to go to a cafe after work and talk to other nerds about a book we all read for an hour. If the discussion veers off topic then so be it. I don’t get this obsession to police book clubs for efficiency.
- drusepth 6y ago
  Bars and churches immediately come to mind, but depending on what city you live in there should be plenty of other opportunities: generic meetups, smallgroups, dog parks, volunteering, taking a class, etc. Using hobbies is a great way to make friends if you enjoy that hobby. I just think it's a little disingenuous to go to a book club for something other than the book; it feels like going to the gym to just try to chat people up, or really any hobby-related gathering where you don't really care about the hobby. If you're not going to read the book for a book club, it just seems like you might have better luck finding shared hobbies with people at a different kind of club. Then again, that's just my opinion of what my ideal book club looks like, but that's in no way the "right" way. Social book clubs are probably a great way to get more people to read things they otherwise wouldn't; I just don't get as much out of those kinds of book clubs.
  - Dayshine 6y ago
    > Bars and churches Uh, what? I (and I imagine a good 50%+ of the hacker news readership, perhaps 75%+ if you exclude the USA) am never going to go to either of those without already knowing people. > generic meetups, smallgroups, dog parks, Places where you have nothing in common, so nothing to easily bond over (such as a book you've all read) > volunteering, taking a class Things where you should be focusing on something else, not socialising (such as in your ideal bookclub). > If you're not going to read the book for a book club, it just seems like you might have better luck finding shared hobbies with people at a different kind of club. What makes a book club different to any other hobby club? Or are you saying that you should only go to any hobby meetup if you're a "hardcore" hobbyist? Because that leaves basically no way to meet people with common interests.
    - karaterobot 6y ago
      It sounds like there are a fair number of people who believe it is essentially impossible to socialize with people except at book clubs.
      - war1025 6y ago
        I am legitimately unsure reading the other comments in this thread whether you (or they?) are being serious. In my mind a book club was a group of middle aged women drinking wine and talking about Fifty Shades of Gray. And even that I thought was just a cliche and not an actual thing. Are book clubs actually a thing that people regularly take part in?
satvikpendem 6y ago
Yes, I agree with you. If I'm at a book club, I'd go to discuss books, and socializing comes second, as in if I like someone's opinion I'll hang out with them afterwards. If I want a social gathering, I'll just call a social gathering together with my friends with no pretense of another activity.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  I think that is fine to want that in your book clubs... but can you also appreciate that some people want to go to book clubs to have a themed, quiet, get together with friends?
  - satvikpendem 6y ago
    Sure, and I now understand the dichotomy. Some people are expecting book clubs to be casual and others hardcore. Our definitions are not the same so our conclusions as to what book clubs should be are also not the same. I like both approaches but I like them to be delineated. If I'm with my friends I can appreciate it being a social gathering with a theme, but if I attend a "hardcore" book club, well, I expect it to be hardcore, talking about the book itself for most of the time.
jtbayly 6y ago
If you want a shared class, a literary podcast might be more up your alley.
- lonelappde 6y ago
  Is that shared?
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    I mean, I can share one with you. :shrug: But seriously, some of them have nice online community and discussion. I’m not familiar with the term “shared class” and an internet search didn’t reveal anything specific.
tdeck 6y ago
Since I've run one of these "social" book clubs for a few years (we actually say "you're welcome to come if you haven't read the book" in our Meetup post), perhaps I can give some insight into what they're like. It's interesting to reflect on how things could be done better, and over the years I've spent a good amount of time doing that and making tweaks. First of all, the group I'm in tends to read mostly non-fiction books about history, philosophy, science, social issues, and economics. I've never thought about it before, but this is perhaps one big reason why people can drop in and have a good discussion even if they didn't read the book. People have opinions about these subjects and personal experiences that are often interesting even if they didn't read "Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City" or "Why Buddhism is True". That said, it can also get frustrating and annoying at times, particularly when people pile on with counter-arguments that the author has already carefully addressed. Then I sometimes find myself having to articulate a low-fidelity version of the author's argument and defend it, when the book obviously does a better version of that. I tend to see these experiences as just part of the price for this kind of book group. We make other trade-offs as well. The group is advertised on Meetup and it's a part of a secular humanist organization I'm in, which means people come for all kinds of reasons. Maybe they saw the book and were intrigued by it, others are curious about or identify with humanism in general, occasionally people seem to be new to the US and want to practice their English and reading. These different groups are inconsistent in their attendance as you can imagine. There's a core group that came for whatever reason and got "drawn in" with the community and the types of discussions and come back most months. Then there are people who only come if they liked that particular book. Then there are people we'll never see again. In other words, we have a higher churn rate than the "group of friends" or "high commitment" book clubs probably do, so we need to bring in more people. But this also has its advantages, because I meet all kinds of people in jobs, age groups, and parts of the bay area that I would never normally meet, and hear interesting stories from different walks of life. Overall I think our club serves a good purpose - it gets people out of the house, meeting others, and learning something new from a book each month, even if we're not "sucking the marrow out" of the book and only getting a more superficial benefit.
- Sevaris 6y ago
  > First of all, the group I'm in tends to read mostly non-fiction books about history, philosophy, science, social issues, and economics. Okay, I need to find me a book club like this. That sounds legit amazing. I sort of assumed book clubs were always about novels. On the other hand, I'm not sure how easy it is to find book clubs in Germany ...
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
> get extremely frustrated ... when conversation temporarily drifts to non-book-related topics I think every hobby related group I have participated has had that to a certain extent. During sports activities people talk about other stuff. At the gym, people joke around. In debates club when I was in school we talked about other stuff. Hell, even at a hackathon, maybe 5-10% of the conversation is not about the app or the hackathon. Even the journal club in grad school always started and ended with non-science talk. I have never been frustrated. People are social, and there is value to creating multifaceted connections with other people.
brianpan 6y ago
That's what happens with social things. There are competitive softball leagues and there are "beer leagues". Not everyone has the same amount of time and commitment to spare. It can be helpful if expectations are out there (and people are a little flexible).
jvvw 6y ago
It's about socialising with like-minded people though isn't it? I used to enjoy the mix of semi-intellectual discussion about the book and socialising at the book club I used to go to.
cafard 6y ago
My objection is when the hosts--who in our club get to pick the book--have not read the book without reading it. This happens too often and can leave the rest of us trudging though something pretty tedious. I wouldn't say the club is bad, I guess I'd say it's not serious. My wife is in another club, all women, and people there show up without having read the book too.

watwut 6y ago

> There's plenty of other places you can go if you just want to be social. There is not? People don't socialize without excuse and did not for years. People who want to socialize have to pick a hobby or interest and try there. It may be sport, bookclub, game, something technical, whatever, but it must be something.

satvikpendem 6y ago
What about going to a party? That is a purely social event without any hobby attached to it. Hell, you can find random parties to attend on Meetup or similar if you really wanted, which I've gone to.
- ozim 6y ago
  If you are extrovert and you are OK with dozens of strangers around you it will work. If you have hard time getting along with random people and you need time to open up and get confident with others that is really bad idea. I think book club where mostly the same people who are also less outgoing is better option.
  - satvikpendem 6y ago
    That's understandable. I wish there were a way of separating these two types of book clubs then, a casual versus hardcore variety. I think by doing so, fewer people would be disappointed when it turns out to be the opposite variety of what they expected. Thanks for your viewpoint, it helped me understand the idea better.
    - OJFord 6y ago
      I don't think it's difficult? It's just in the way it's described. > Monthly social book club, not too serious, new faces always welcome. > Monthly book club exploring everything from X to Y with a focus on Z. Newcomers wanting a place to discuss how P Qs R with like-minded friends always welcome.
    - nemo 6y ago
      Book clubs are generally going to be fairly causal affairs since they're clubs. If you're looking for something serious find a study group or a book club that calls itself a study group. Book clubs are like many other clubs, where social bonding with the group is expected, and the book's an excuse to spend time socializing.
    - abnry 6y ago
      Seems you want a _book study_ not a _book club_. A club doesn't suggest to me a mode of intensity.
    - Moru 6y ago
      I expect you would feel very alone in the hard core book club. The socializing aspect with book clubs and any other hobby clubs are very high. Some people just looks around to find anything at all that helps them find someone to talk to, be it hobby train modelling, sewing or whatever. Book clubs are nothing special in that aspect. And most clubs are happy to get anyone, not just hardcore enthusiasts. Much like the church, they see it as an opportunity to sell their services.
  - Sevaris 6y ago
    As an introvert, I like going to parties. I get to meet new people and there's usually at least a couple of them who are interesting or hilarious or both. If you're socially anxious, then yeah, it might not be a great experience.
- watwut 6y ago
  Somehow I think that party with strangers over meetup is not how majority of adults want to do things. The structure of club provides: 0.) Daytime activity so you get sleep and don't have to drink. 1.) Regular membership - meeting same people over and over again so that friendship can happen after months. 2.) Regular time and place so it is easy to add to schedule, agree with partner on who has kids and so on. 3.) Good fallback for when you dont fit in initially. Common topic. 4.) Safety. It is safer then party with strangers. 5.) Excuse. People need excuse to socialize. Socializing is seen as waste of time or as being bad parent. The club gives excuse for why you are not lazy for doing it.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  Many book clubs are a type of party... a quiet, low key, themed party around a book. What is wrong with people wanting to go to that type of party?
- redisman 6y ago
  A party is the literal opposite of a bookclub. I just want to go to a cafe after work and talk to other nerds about a book we all read for an hour. If the discussion veers off topic then so be it. I don’t get this obsession to police book clubs for efficiency.
drusepth 6y ago
Bars and churches immediately come to mind, but depending on what city you live in there should be plenty of other opportunities: generic meetups, smallgroups, dog parks, volunteering, taking a class, etc. Using hobbies is a great way to make friends if you enjoy that hobby. I just think it's a little disingenuous to go to a book club for something other than the book; it feels like going to the gym to just try to chat people up, or really any hobby-related gathering where you don't really care about the hobby. If you're not going to read the book for a book club, it just seems like you might have better luck finding shared hobbies with people at a different kind of club. Then again, that's just my opinion of what my ideal book club looks like, but that's in no way the "right" way. Social book clubs are probably a great way to get more people to read things they otherwise wouldn't; I just don't get as much out of those kinds of book clubs.
- Dayshine 6y ago
  > Bars and churches Uh, what? I (and I imagine a good 50%+ of the hacker news readership, perhaps 75%+ if you exclude the USA) am never going to go to either of those without already knowing people. > generic meetups, smallgroups, dog parks, Places where you have nothing in common, so nothing to easily bond over (such as a book you've all read) > volunteering, taking a class Things where you should be focusing on something else, not socialising (such as in your ideal bookclub). > If you're not going to read the book for a book club, it just seems like you might have better luck finding shared hobbies with people at a different kind of club. What makes a book club different to any other hobby club? Or are you saying that you should only go to any hobby meetup if you're a "hardcore" hobbyist? Because that leaves basically no way to meet people with common interests.
  - karaterobot 6y ago
    It sounds like there are a fair number of people who believe it is essentially impossible to socialize with people except at book clubs.
    - war1025 6y ago
      I am legitimately unsure reading the other comments in this thread whether you (or they?) are being serious. In my mind a book club was a group of middle aged women drinking wine and talking about Fifty Shades of Gray. And even that I thought was just a cliche and not an actual thing. Are book clubs actually a thing that people regularly take part in?

satvikpendem 6y ago

Yes, I agree with you. If I'm at a book club, I'd go to discuss books, and socializing comes second, as in if I like someone's opinion I'll hang out with them afterwards. If I want a social gathering, I'll just call a social gathering together with my friends with no pretense of another activity.

cortesoft 6y ago
I think that is fine to want that in your book clubs... but can you also appreciate that some people want to go to book clubs to have a themed, quiet, get together with friends?
- satvikpendem 6y ago
  Sure, and I now understand the dichotomy. Some people are expecting book clubs to be casual and others hardcore. Our definitions are not the same so our conclusions as to what book clubs should be are also not the same. I like both approaches but I like them to be delineated. If I'm with my friends I can appreciate it being a social gathering with a theme, but if I attend a "hardcore" book club, well, I expect it to be hardcore, talking about the book itself for most of the time.

jtbayly 6y ago

If you want a shared class, a literary podcast might be more up your alley.

lonelappde 6y ago
Is that shared?
- jtbayly 6y ago
  I mean, I can share one with you. :shrug: But seriously, some of them have nice online community and discussion. I’m not familiar with the term “shared class” and an internet search didn’t reveal anything specific.

tdeck 6y ago

Since I've run one of these "social" book clubs for a few years (we actually say "you're welcome to come if you haven't read the book" in our Meetup post), perhaps I can give some insight into what they're like. It's interesting to reflect on how things could be done better, and over the years I've spent a good amount of time doing that and making tweaks. First of all, the group I'm in tends to read mostly non-fiction books about history, philosophy, science, social issues, and economics. I've never thought about it before, but this is perhaps one big reason why people can drop in and have a good discussion even if they didn't read the book. People have opinions about these subjects and personal experiences that are often interesting even if they didn't read "Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City" or "Why Buddhism is True". That said, it can also get frustrating and annoying at times, particularly when people pile on with counter-arguments that the author has already carefully addressed. Then I sometimes find myself having to articulate a low-fidelity version of the author's argument and defend it, when the book obviously does a better version of that. I tend to see these experiences as just part of the price for this kind of book group. We make other trade-offs as well. The group is advertised on Meetup and it's a part of a secular humanist organization I'm in, which means people come for all kinds of reasons. Maybe they saw the book and were intrigued by it, others are curious about or identify with humanism in general, occasionally people seem to be new to the US and want to practice their English and reading. These different groups are inconsistent in their attendance as you can imagine. There's a core group that came for whatever reason and got "drawn in" with the community and the types of discussions and come back most months. Then there are people who only come if they liked that particular book. Then there are people we'll never see again. In other words, we have a higher churn rate than the "group of friends" or "high commitment" book clubs probably do, so we need to bring in more people. But this also has its advantages, because I meet all kinds of people in jobs, age groups, and parts of the bay area that I would never normally meet, and hear interesting stories from different walks of life. Overall I think our club serves a good purpose - it gets people out of the house, meeting others, and learning something new from a book each month, even if we're not "sucking the marrow out" of the book and only getting a more superficial benefit.

Sevaris 6y ago
> First of all, the group I'm in tends to read mostly non-fiction books about history, philosophy, science, social issues, and economics. Okay, I need to find me a book club like this. That sounds legit amazing. I sort of assumed book clubs were always about novels. On the other hand, I'm not sure how easy it is to find book clubs in Germany ...

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

> get extremely frustrated ... when conversation temporarily drifts to non-book-related topics I think every hobby related group I have participated has had that to a certain extent. During sports activities people talk about other stuff. At the gym, people joke around. In debates club when I was in school we talked about other stuff. Hell, even at a hackathon, maybe 5-10% of the conversation is not about the app or the hackathon. Even the journal club in grad school always started and ended with non-science talk. I have never been frustrated. People are social, and there is value to creating multifaceted connections with other people.

brianpan 6y ago

That's what happens with social things. There are competitive softball leagues and there are "beer leagues". Not everyone has the same amount of time and commitment to spare. It can be helpful if expectations are out there (and people are a little flexible).

jvvw 6y ago

It's about socialising with like-minded people though isn't it? I used to enjoy the mix of semi-intellectual discussion about the book and socialising at the book club I used to go to.

cafard 6y ago

My objection is when the hosts--who in our club get to pick the book--have not read the book without reading it. This happens too often and can leave the rest of us trudging though something pretty tedious. I wouldn't say the club is bad, I guess I'd say it's not serious. My wife is in another club, all women, and people there show up without having read the book too.