10 ms·

> A book club run in the standard way isn’t efficient or practical — it’s just a good opportunity wasted. This kinda misses the point of most book clubs. The p

by tdeck 6y ago

> A book club run in the standard way isn’t efficient or practical — it’s just a good opportunity wasted. This kinda misses the point of most book clubs. The point is to have an excuse to meet and talk to people - the book is secondary. In fact many people come to book clubs without having read that month's book, just for the social outlet. Perhaps that's silly from a literary perspective but it still serves a purpose.

prostheticvamp 6y ago
I have the strong suspicion this person doesn’t participate in book clubs. Or much in the way of social events. Mistaking “book club” for “book class” isn’t a small category error.
- jasim 6y ago
  It makes me sad to read that statement - strangers are insulting James Somers (the original author) simply because I posted one of his articles in this forum. He's written articles like https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/10/the-friendship-that-made-google-huge https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/10/the-friendship... which was one of the best pieces of writing on technology and humans that I've read recently. This is not the work of a recluse (the undesirable negative connotations aside).
  - prostheticvamp 6y ago
    For what it’s worth, I didn’t mean it as an insult.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > strangers are insulting James Somers I mean he's the one telling people that they're doing their hobby 'wrong'... I’m sure he can accept criticism if he’s going to issue it uninvited himself.
  - monadic2 6y ago
    Comments on Mr. Somers aside, he clearly and explicitly already had a book club experience that frustrated him.
  - nertzy 6y ago
    I used to work on a software development team with James Somers and I can attest that he is both a great writer and able to handle criticism, valid or otherwise. I think he would appreciate the debates he is generating.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
gwbas1c 6y ago
Makes me think of the episode from Malcolm in the Middle where "book club" was an excuse for housewives to get drunk together. Sometimes you need to pretend that you're being responsible!
- Thlom 6y ago
  LOL. Where I'm from they just call it club. It's basically women (not housewives, that is a forgotten concept around here) who have come together for one reason or the other (neighbors, got children at the same time and where in a maternity group together, childhood friends) who form a "club". Once a week or once a month they congregate in one of the members house and get drunk. It's probably great for them, but from my understanding it can be difficult to become a member of a club if you didn't get in one at the right time.
  - MiddleEndian 6y ago
    >It's probably great for them, but from my understanding it can be difficult to become a member of a club if you didn't get in one at the right time. I think overall this is probably good for the clubs, assuming it's easy to create a new one. A bunch of smaller groups seems more pleasant than one increasingly unwieldy group.
  - lonelappde 6y ago
    > can be difficult to become a member of a club if you didn't get in one at the right time. That applies to all repeated social events, doesn't it? Unless it is something that has an annual "new class", but that's also a "right time".
drusepth 6y ago
I'm now wondering how common the two (or more?) types of book clubs in the wild are. I've always treated book clubs more like a shared class and get extremely frustrated when someone shows up without reading the book/chapters ("they're just wasting everyone's time") or when conversation temporarily drifts to non-book-related topics. I go to book clubs for the insights and commentary I get on books from people with different life experiences, reading history, etc. There's plenty of other places you can go if you just want to be social. I've definitely seen more "social" book clubs, too. I just assumed they were "bad" or not serious, but I guess they're just targeted at people wanting something different out of the book club experience.
- watwut 6y ago
  > There's plenty of other places you can go if you just want to be social. There is not? People don't socialize without excuse and did not for years. People who want to socialize have to pick a hobby or interest and try there. It may be sport, bookclub, game, something technical, whatever, but it must be something.
  - satvikpendem 6y ago
    What about going to a party? That is a purely social event without any hobby attached to it. Hell, you can find random parties to attend on Meetup or similar if you really wanted, which I've gone to.
    - ozim 6y ago
      If you are extrovert and you are OK with dozens of strangers around you it will work. If you have hard time getting along with random people and you need time to open up and get confident with others that is really bad idea. I think book club where mostly the same people who are also less outgoing is better option.
      - satvikpendem 6y ago
        That's understandable. I wish there were a way of separating these two types of book clubs then, a casual versus hardcore variety. I think by doing so, fewer people would be disappointed when it turns out to be the opposite variety of what they expected. Thanks for your viewpoint, it helped me understand the idea better.
kickscondor 6y ago
Did you finish the post? > Book club, for us, isn’t about reading the same book; it’s about reading a book together. > The idea is to make book club less an obligation than a sort of pleasant presence in our lives, this thing that’s always there. > That’s another reason to break a book into pieces: better to have too little to fit into a session than too much; god forbid you read something complex and demanding — do you really want to spend three hours in the unpacking, or to have the session break down before the unpacking’s done? I agree with the author's conclusions - and have a book club that operates the same way. And I agree with him because it's a better social experience. (A chance to catch up with others with happen to share book reading as a hobby without needing to do homework.)
- tdeck 6y ago
  I must admit I skimmed the post the first time :). I too have run a book group for the last few years, and we've toyed with this idea several times. The advantages are clear in terms of not having to hit a tough deadline, and being able to tackle longer books. I think it can work with anthologies of short stories and essays, but for longer narrative works I wonder about the following (perhaps you can provide some insight): - Will new people be willing to join in the middle of a book? - If people don't like the book, do they just have to stick around for the next N meetings? If not, does it lose its place in their routine causing them to forget about it? I think these concerns may be specific to more "open-access" book groups that anyone can join, rather than long-running groups of existing friends.
  - kickscondor 6y ago
    One way my group has done this is to tackle an author or a series together - that way we have some common ground in our reading. However, if you’re doing it long-term, I much prefer just talking about what you’re reading right now. Over time, you will start to read each other’s recommendations and the discussion will catch up. I’m sure there are a lot of ways to do this. (OH and it’s awesome that you fessed up about skimming the article - I am there with you the rest of the time. :D)
nogabebop23 6y ago
>> The point is to have an excuse to meet and talk to people and drink wine or coffee!
black6 6y ago
I’m currently reading Jacques Ellul’s The Technological Society (really a must-read these days, like Mumford’s Pentagon of Power and Kaczynski’s Industrial Society and its Future) and I underlined this summary of Homans: “‘Formerly, when a New England family convoked a ‘bee’ (that is, a meeting for working in common), it was for all concerned one of the most pleasurable times of the year. The work was scarcely more than a pretext for coming together.’ The activity of sustaining social relations and human contacts predominated over the technical scheme of things and the obligation to work, which were secondary causes.”
- sjustns 6y ago
  I have a reading list you might enjoy! https://www.are.na/justin-s-ptylb5wff1u https://www.are.na/justin-s-ptylb5wff1u

by tdeck 6y ago

prostheticvamp 6y ago

I have the strong suspicion this person doesn’t participate in book clubs. Or much in the way of social events. Mistaking “book club” for “book class” isn’t a small category error.

jasim 6y ago
It makes me sad to read that statement - strangers are insulting James Somers (the original author) simply because I posted one of his articles in this forum. He's written articles like https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/10/the-friendship-that-made-google-huge https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/10/the-friendship... which was one of the best pieces of writing on technology and humans that I've read recently. This is not the work of a recluse (the undesirable negative connotations aside).
- prostheticvamp 6y ago
  For what it’s worth, I didn’t mean it as an insult.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > strangers are insulting James Somers I mean he's the one telling people that they're doing their hobby 'wrong'... I’m sure he can accept criticism if he’s going to issue it uninvited himself.
- monadic2 6y ago
  Comments on Mr. Somers aside, he clearly and explicitly already had a book club experience that frustrated him.
- nertzy 6y ago
  I used to work on a software development team with James Somers and I can attest that he is both a great writer and able to handle criticism, valid or otherwise. I think he would appreciate the debates he is generating.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

gwbas1c 6y ago

Makes me think of the episode from Malcolm in the Middle where "book club" was an excuse for housewives to get drunk together. Sometimes you need to pretend that you're being responsible!

Thlom 6y ago
LOL. Where I'm from they just call it club. It's basically women (not housewives, that is a forgotten concept around here) who have come together for one reason or the other (neighbors, got children at the same time and where in a maternity group together, childhood friends) who form a "club". Once a week or once a month they congregate in one of the members house and get drunk. It's probably great for them, but from my understanding it can be difficult to become a member of a club if you didn't get in one at the right time.
- MiddleEndian 6y ago
  >It's probably great for them, but from my understanding it can be difficult to become a member of a club if you didn't get in one at the right time. I think overall this is probably good for the clubs, assuming it's easy to create a new one. A bunch of smaller groups seems more pleasant than one increasingly unwieldy group.
- lonelappde 6y ago
  > can be difficult to become a member of a club if you didn't get in one at the right time. That applies to all repeated social events, doesn't it? Unless it is something that has an annual "new class", but that's also a "right time".

drusepth 6y ago

I'm now wondering how common the two (or more?) types of book clubs in the wild are. I've always treated book clubs more like a shared class and get extremely frustrated when someone shows up without reading the book/chapters ("they're just wasting everyone's time") or when conversation temporarily drifts to non-book-related topics. I go to book clubs for the insights and commentary I get on books from people with different life experiences, reading history, etc. There's plenty of other places you can go if you just want to be social. I've definitely seen more "social" book clubs, too. I just assumed they were "bad" or not serious, but I guess they're just targeted at people wanting something different out of the book club experience.

watwut 6y ago
> There's plenty of other places you can go if you just want to be social. There is not? People don't socialize without excuse and did not for years. People who want to socialize have to pick a hobby or interest and try there. It may be sport, bookclub, game, something technical, whatever, but it must be something.
- satvikpendem 6y ago
  What about going to a party? That is a purely social event without any hobby attached to it. Hell, you can find random parties to attend on Meetup or similar if you really wanted, which I've gone to.
  - ozim 6y ago
    If you are extrovert and you are OK with dozens of strangers around you it will work. If you have hard time getting along with random people and you need time to open up and get confident with others that is really bad idea. I think book club where mostly the same people who are also less outgoing is better option.
    - satvikpendem 6y ago
      That's understandable. I wish there were a way of separating these two types of book clubs then, a casual versus hardcore variety. I think by doing so, fewer people would be disappointed when it turns out to be the opposite variety of what they expected. Thanks for your viewpoint, it helped me understand the idea better.

kickscondor 6y ago

Did you finish the post? > Book club, for us, isn’t about reading the same book; it’s about reading a book together. > The idea is to make book club less an obligation than a sort of pleasant presence in our lives, this thing that’s always there. > That’s another reason to break a book into pieces: better to have too little to fit into a session than too much; god forbid you read something complex and demanding — do you really want to spend three hours in the unpacking, or to have the session break down before the unpacking’s done? I agree with the author's conclusions - and have a book club that operates the same way. And I agree with him because it's a better social experience. (A chance to catch up with others with happen to share book reading as a hobby without needing to do homework.)

tdeck 6y ago
I must admit I skimmed the post the first time :). I too have run a book group for the last few years, and we've toyed with this idea several times. The advantages are clear in terms of not having to hit a tough deadline, and being able to tackle longer books. I think it can work with anthologies of short stories and essays, but for longer narrative works I wonder about the following (perhaps you can provide some insight): - Will new people be willing to join in the middle of a book? - If people don't like the book, do they just have to stick around for the next N meetings? If not, does it lose its place in their routine causing them to forget about it? I think these concerns may be specific to more "open-access" book groups that anyone can join, rather than long-running groups of existing friends.
- kickscondor 6y ago
  One way my group has done this is to tackle an author or a series together - that way we have some common ground in our reading. However, if you’re doing it long-term, I much prefer just talking about what you’re reading right now. Over time, you will start to read each other’s recommendations and the discussion will catch up. I’m sure there are a lot of ways to do this. (OH and it’s awesome that you fessed up about skimming the article - I am there with you the rest of the time. :D)

nogabebop23 6y ago

>> The point is to have an excuse to meet and talk to people and drink wine or coffee!

black6 6y ago

I’m currently reading Jacques Ellul’s The Technological Society (really a must-read these days, like Mumford’s Pentagon of Power and Kaczynski’s Industrial Society and its Future) and I underlined this summary of Homans: “‘Formerly, when a New England family convoked a ‘bee’ (that is, a meeting for working in common), it was for all concerned one of the most pleasurable times of the year. The work was scarcely more than a pretext for coming together.’ The activity of sustaining social relations and human contacts predominated over the technical scheme of things and the obligation to work, which were secondary causes.”

sjustns 6y ago
I have a reading list you might enjoy! https://www.are.na/justin-s-ptylb5wff1u https://www.are.na/justin-s-ptylb5wff1u