5 ms·

Why does it matter though? it doesn't matter if the burger cost $1 + $9 fee or $9 + $1 fee, from my perspective the burger cost $10.

by matz1 6y ago

kingnight 6y ago
You might care that you are paying $10 for $1 quality burger? But more I think people want their money to support the businesses that are making the food. Restaurants are very difficult businesses, and people that like them want to support them vs the VC backed startups.
- matz1 6y ago
  I care, so I judge the quality according to the money I paid to obtain it, in this case I judge it as $10 quality burger.
  - mint2 6y ago
    With the extreme cost disparity in your example, it’s only Taking your example a tiny bit further to say if the restaurant was paid zero by the app but the app somehow got their food, you’d be be okay with it. It’s not much more extreme from what your comment said to say if you value a burger $10 it doesn’t matter if the $10 went to someone who involuntarily coerced the restaurant and $0 went to the restaurant. What is the name for workers who do work without pay? Most people have some sense of moral rightness in their supply chain when an injustice is visible. That is why the apps hide their exorbitant fees.
    - matz1 6y ago
      >if the restaurant was paid zero by the app but the app somehow got their food, you’d be be okay with it If I'm the customer: yes. If I'm the restaurant: no, I would not agree to give out food if I'm getting paid zero. > What is the name for workers who do work without pay? Same thing if I'm the worker, it doesn't matter if the pay is $10 - $9 deduction or $1 - $0 deduction, in both case it really is $1. I then decide whether it worth my effort to do it for $1.
      - grawprog 6y ago
        >If I'm the customer: yes Well of you enjoy that restaurant you shouldn't be ok with it, because with price margins like you describe, that restaurant's not going to exist for very long.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        matz1 6y ago
        I am specifically discussing about comparing net price, nothing to do with price margin though.
        mint2 6y ago
        Why are you limiting your consideration to such and artificial and limited scope? No one else is going to object if you consider whether a wallet vote is pretty blatantly encouraging and rewarding exploitive behavior. It’s very hard to pretend the relationship is not exploitative.
        matz1 6y ago
        The price of the item is real for me. Limited scope? Sure, its for my benefit and my convinience.
        dwild 6y ago
        > Well of you enjoy that restaurant you shouldn't be ok with it, because with price margins like you describe, that restaurant's not going to exist for very long. That's only true in a vacuum though. There's so much more variable that makes it absurd to happen, except if we live in some kind of tv show. Let say Uber eat charge too much and it kill their customer, will they keep doing it? Why would they? Theses customers are the one bringiner them this cash. Why would no competitor see that and decide to charge 1% less? That would be absurd for the restaurant not to consider that one instead. That strategy would be incredibly easy to apply locally too. Let's not forget that restaurant still can have their own delivery drivers too, like in the article we are talking about right now. That also means that you will have to pay for the marketing too that the delivery service provided for you beforehands... but that's normal business.
jedimastert 6y ago
It matters if you like the burger place. There are restaurants in my community that I am genuinely worries will go under in these COVID-19 times, not only because of the good food, but because of the good people I want to see succeed and the people I see when I go there. I don't want to screw them over if I can help it.
ojnabieoot 6y ago
“If it cost $1 in slave room and board while the whipmaster pocketed the extra $9, does that make a difference to me, the noble opportunity-maximizing consumer who simpl- hey wait where are you going?”
- matz1 6y ago
  It works the same way as for the worker, if you pay is $10 but they took $9 then for the worker the pay is really is $1, no different then if the bos pay $1 with 0 deduction. Then what the worker do is to decide whether it worth to do the job for $1. Of course if you are taking about actual slave then it moot point.
- curryst 6y ago
  This is not at all the same. These restaurants are willingly and knowingly entering into and maintaining a businesses relationship with the delivery apps. If they're unhappy with the cut that they get, they can either raise the prices they list on Doordash, or they can just unlist themselves (and the apps may create a listing for them, but then they still pay the restaurant the full menu price). I don't understand the whole hearted support for a business that is asking consumers to inconvenience themselves to help maximize their profit margins. Where are all the people demanding that we all stop using credit cards to avoid the evil transaction surcharges from Visa?
  - ojnabieoot 6y ago
    If the transaction surcharges were 30% then people would be demanding we stopped using Visas. You are being deliberately obtuse and dishonestly sidestepping the issue at hand. The exploitative and abusive charges have gotten dramatically worse in response to the pandemic as GrubHub and other app providers flexed their increased market muscle to extort restaurants facing no alternative. It is “willingly and knowingly” entering an agreement in the same sense that I willingly gave the guy who robbed me my wallet to avoid getting stabbed.
    - curryst 6y ago
TeMPOraL 6y ago
To the extent price is correlated with quality, you should very much be concerned about how much the restaurant is getting out of your $10. If they get $9, you can expect some quality food. If they get $1, then let's hope you have a strong stomach.
- matz1 6y ago
  I agree that price corelate to quality. My point is if restaurant A sell burger for $1+$9 fee, restaurant B sell burger for $9+$1 fee, I would judge the quality of these 2 the same way. Just because restaurant A burger cost $1 (for the restaurant), doesn't mean I have to judge them lightly.
listenallyall 6y ago
What if you want 2 burgers?
mcv 6y ago
But at one place, you might be able to pick it up for $1, while at the other place, it would cost $9. The amount of fee matters when the fee is avoidable.
- matz1 6y ago
  I agree, I'm discussing the case where the fee is unavoidable.

Why does it matter though? it doesn't matter if the burger cost $1 + $9 fee or $9 + $1 fee, from my perspective the burger cost $10.

by matz1 6y ago

Why does it matter though? it doesn't matter if the burger cost $1 + $9 fee or $9 + $1 fee, from my perspective the burger cost $10.

kingnight 6y ago

You might care that you are paying $10 for $1 quality burger? But more I think people want their money to support the businesses that are making the food. Restaurants are very difficult businesses, and people that like them want to support them vs the VC backed startups.

matz1 6y ago
I care, so I judge the quality according to the money I paid to obtain it, in this case I judge it as $10 quality burger.
- mint2 6y ago
  With the extreme cost disparity in your example, it’s only Taking your example a tiny bit further to say if the restaurant was paid zero by the app but the app somehow got their food, you’d be be okay with it. It’s not much more extreme from what your comment said to say if you value a burger $10 it doesn’t matter if the $10 went to someone who involuntarily coerced the restaurant and $0 went to the restaurant. What is the name for workers who do work without pay? Most people have some sense of moral rightness in their supply chain when an injustice is visible. That is why the apps hide their exorbitant fees.
  - matz1 6y ago
    >if the restaurant was paid zero by the app but the app somehow got their food, you’d be be okay with it If I'm the customer: yes. If I'm the restaurant: no, I would not agree to give out food if I'm getting paid zero. > What is the name for workers who do work without pay? Same thing if I'm the worker, it doesn't matter if the pay is $10 - $9 deduction or $1 - $0 deduction, in both case it really is $1. I then decide whether it worth my effort to do it for $1.
    - grawprog 6y ago
      >If I'm the customer: yes Well of you enjoy that restaurant you shouldn't be ok with it, because with price margins like you describe, that restaurant's not going to exist for very long.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - matz1 6y ago
        I am specifically discussing about comparing net price, nothing to do with price margin though.
        mint2 6y ago
        Why are you limiting your consideration to such and artificial and limited scope? No one else is going to object if you consider whether a wallet vote is pretty blatantly encouraging and rewarding exploitive behavior. It’s very hard to pretend the relationship is not exploitative.
        matz1 6y ago
        The price of the item is real for me. Limited scope? Sure, its for my benefit and my convinience.
      - dwild 6y ago
        > Well of you enjoy that restaurant you shouldn't be ok with it, because with price margins like you describe, that restaurant's not going to exist for very long. That's only true in a vacuum though. There's so much more variable that makes it absurd to happen, except if we live in some kind of tv show. Let say Uber eat charge too much and it kill their customer, will they keep doing it? Why would they? Theses customers are the one bringiner them this cash. Why would no competitor see that and decide to charge 1% less? That would be absurd for the restaurant not to consider that one instead. That strategy would be incredibly easy to apply locally too. Let's not forget that restaurant still can have their own delivery drivers too, like in the article we are talking about right now. That also means that you will have to pay for the marketing too that the delivery service provided for you beforehands... but that's normal business.

jedimastert 6y ago

It matters if you like the burger place. There are restaurants in my community that I am genuinely worries will go under in these COVID-19 times, not only because of the good food, but because of the good people I want to see succeed and the people I see when I go there. I don't want to screw them over if I can help it.

ojnabieoot 6y ago

“If it cost $1 in slave room and board while the whipmaster pocketed the extra $9, does that make a difference to me, the noble opportunity-maximizing consumer who simpl- hey wait where are you going?”

matz1 6y ago
It works the same way as for the worker, if you pay is $10 but they took $9 then for the worker the pay is really is $1, no different then if the bos pay $1 with 0 deduction. Then what the worker do is to decide whether it worth to do the job for $1. Of course if you are taking about actual slave then it moot point.
curryst 6y ago
This is not at all the same. These restaurants are willingly and knowingly entering into and maintaining a businesses relationship with the delivery apps. If they're unhappy with the cut that they get, they can either raise the prices they list on Doordash, or they can just unlist themselves (and the apps may create a listing for them, but then they still pay the restaurant the full menu price). I don't understand the whole hearted support for a business that is asking consumers to inconvenience themselves to help maximize their profit margins. Where are all the people demanding that we all stop using credit cards to avoid the evil transaction surcharges from Visa?
- ojnabieoot 6y ago
  If the transaction surcharges were 30% then people would be demanding we stopped using Visas. You are being deliberately obtuse and dishonestly sidestepping the issue at hand. The exploitative and abusive charges have gotten dramatically worse in response to the pandemic as GrubHub and other app providers flexed their increased market muscle to extort restaurants facing no alternative. It is “willingly and knowingly” entering an agreement in the same sense that I willingly gave the guy who robbed me my wallet to avoid getting stabbed.
  - curryst 6y ago

TeMPOraL 6y ago

To the extent price is correlated with quality, you should very much be concerned about how much the restaurant is getting out of your $10. If they get $9, you can expect some quality food. If they get $1, then let's hope you have a strong stomach.

matz1 6y ago
I agree that price corelate to quality. My point is if restaurant A sell burger for $1+$9 fee, restaurant B sell burger for $9+$1 fee, I would judge the quality of these 2 the same way. Just because restaurant A burger cost $1 (for the restaurant), doesn't mean I have to judge them lightly.

listenallyall 6y ago

What if you want 2 burgers?

mcv 6y ago

But at one place, you might be able to pick it up for $1, while at the other place, it would cost $9. The amount of fee matters when the fee is avoidable.

matz1 6y ago
I agree, I'm discussing the case where the fee is unavoidable.