3 ms·

Well, it seems to have worked out well for some of the Asian countries (and countries like Australia/NZ) which have gotten COVID-19 under control. The US still

Well, it seems to have worked out well for some of the Asian countries (and countries like Australia/NZ) which have gotten COVID-19 under control. The US still ha a major problem with deaths in the tens of thousands, as do many of the European countries. I take your point that there will be economic paint - but I think you're being a bit hyperbolic about "tearing society apart" and "resulting in far more deaths and misery". This is the sort of rhetoric that Trump has been using - whilst I agree in principle there is economic pain - please don't treat people's lives as meaningless, or that the almighty dollar is all that matters. It's the job of governments to guide the country through these crises - this is where government stimulus and spending should be used - not just letting people die needlessly. COVID-19 is a new and novel disease that's highly spreadable, has no known vaccine, and is killing an unprecedented number of people. And we're not just talking about yourself - perhaps you're young/healthy and are prepared to contract COVID-19 and roll the dice. However, those around you - family, or friends - may not be so lucky, or it could be a potentially life-threatening condition. Please think about people around you. The US death toll is nearly 100,000.... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-24/coronavirus-update-covid19-may-24-new-york-times-memorial-day/12280350 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-24/coronavirus-update-co... That is absolutely heartbreaking. That is over 30x the death toll from the 9/11 plane attacks - and look what lengths the government went to combat that? I just got my second COVID-19 test (fortunately came back negative) - my parents (who are older and vulnerable) are paranoid I'll give it to them. So when I got a sore throat, I went to get the test. And a few weeks back, my son had a cough, so I got myself tested. Our government (Australia) is encouraging people with any symptoms to get tested - and I think that's a good thing, towards eradicating this illness.

sandworm101 6y ago
>> and is killing an unprecedented number of people. Black death. Bubonic plague. Smallpox. Malaria. Measles. Polio. There have been many more virulent and many more destructive diseases than this one. Malaria in particular has been so destructive over thousands of years that it has modified human populations, forcing observable natural selection for traits such as sickle-cell anemia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_malaria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_malaria
- 8note 6y ago
  Those aren't killing people in rich countries with good healthcare and sanitation though
- victorhooi 6y ago
  You're correct that historically, there have been other illnesses hundreds of years ago that killed more people. And in many developing countries, there are tragically many deaths caused by poor sanitation or healthcare. However, this is a disease that has - even with incredibly draconian lockdowns and a global effort from every country to combat it - tragically killed nearly 350,000 people in a matter of months. And this is often in countries with state of the art healthcare systems, and every effort made to keep those people alive. And as another commenter pointed out, this is often in countries not used to such scale of health disasters, as they have healthcare and good sanitation. Ironically, I read that things like air travel and holidays actually worsened illnesses like this. Imagine if we'd simply let the diseases run its course. The thing that baffles me is the US - advanced Western nation - with a death toll of nearly 100,000 people. How is that even possible? I am hoping we've seen the worst of it.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Nursing home outbreaks are a huge chunk of those deaths.
  - robotresearcher 6y ago
    > historically, there have been other illnesses hundreds of years ago that killed more people. AIDS has killed around 34 million people since 1981.
    - codeisawesome 6y ago
      That’s .. staggering.
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > AIDS has killed around 34 million people since 1981. That's on average 100k deaths per year since 1981. Right now we are in our first quarter of covid19 and the official death count is at 340k.
chrisco255 6y ago
It's not just about the dollar. We are social creatures, we thrive off of social interaction and contact and we benefit from community. Businesses, schools, churches, concerts, dancing, sporting events, all these things that give people joy and fun are shut down. We only get a few dozen trips around the sun. I do not want to spend my life cowering in fear and in a society that cowers in fear. I want kids playing in neighborhoods and playing ball, I want concerts on the regular, dancing in public squares and I want to live. But to your point about the economy, we are seeing unprecedented damage to the worldwide economy from the shutdowns. It's not the virus that's doing this. It's the shutdowns. 40 million people are unemployed in the U.S. alone and rising, rapidly. This is unsustainable. The economy has to function or everything falls apart. And a big part of that functioning is travel and tourism and restaurants and it creates value and moves trade along. It's very important to re-establish those things. Much of those deaths are in nursing homes with extremely vulnerable populations. I think its a tragic shame that many of these outbreaks occurred especially in nursing homes all over the northeast (NY, NJ, PA, CT, etc). However, once a patient gets moved to a nursing home, the average length they live is about 1 year. We can make nursing homes cleaner and safer and we should probably get those patients outside a bit more, but there's also only so much that can be done for people in the last months of their life.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- DataWorker 6y ago
  Lockdowns vs no lockdown is an false dichotomy. The lockdown didn’t impact many people like myself, and many people can still be financially impacted even without a lockdown. Some people and businesses have actually been thriving. So your model is too black and white and doesn’t really match reality.

sandworm101 6y ago

>> and is killing an unprecedented number of people. Black death. Bubonic plague. Smallpox. Malaria. Measles. Polio. There have been many more virulent and many more destructive diseases than this one. Malaria in particular has been so destructive over thousands of years that it has modified human populations, forcing observable natural selection for traits such as sickle-cell anemia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_malaria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_malaria

8note 6y ago
Those aren't killing people in rich countries with good healthcare and sanitation though
victorhooi 6y ago
You're correct that historically, there have been other illnesses hundreds of years ago that killed more people. And in many developing countries, there are tragically many deaths caused by poor sanitation or healthcare. However, this is a disease that has - even with incredibly draconian lockdowns and a global effort from every country to combat it - tragically killed nearly 350,000 people in a matter of months. And this is often in countries with state of the art healthcare systems, and every effort made to keep those people alive. And as another commenter pointed out, this is often in countries not used to such scale of health disasters, as they have healthcare and good sanitation. Ironically, I read that things like air travel and holidays actually worsened illnesses like this. Imagine if we'd simply let the diseases run its course. The thing that baffles me is the US - advanced Western nation - with a death toll of nearly 100,000 people. How is that even possible? I am hoping we've seen the worst of it.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Nursing home outbreaks are a huge chunk of those deaths.
- robotresearcher 6y ago
  > historically, there have been other illnesses hundreds of years ago that killed more people. AIDS has killed around 34 million people since 1981.
  - codeisawesome 6y ago
    That’s .. staggering.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > AIDS has killed around 34 million people since 1981. That's on average 100k deaths per year since 1981. Right now we are in our first quarter of covid19 and the official death count is at 340k.

chrisco255 6y ago

It's not just about the dollar. We are social creatures, we thrive off of social interaction and contact and we benefit from community. Businesses, schools, churches, concerts, dancing, sporting events, all these things that give people joy and fun are shut down. We only get a few dozen trips around the sun. I do not want to spend my life cowering in fear and in a society that cowers in fear. I want kids playing in neighborhoods and playing ball, I want concerts on the regular, dancing in public squares and I want to live. But to your point about the economy, we are seeing unprecedented damage to the worldwide economy from the shutdowns. It's not the virus that's doing this. It's the shutdowns. 40 million people are unemployed in the U.S. alone and rising, rapidly. This is unsustainable. The economy has to function or everything falls apart. And a big part of that functioning is travel and tourism and restaurants and it creates value and moves trade along. It's very important to re-establish those things. Much of those deaths are in nursing homes with extremely vulnerable populations. I think its a tragic shame that many of these outbreaks occurred especially in nursing homes all over the northeast (NY, NJ, PA, CT, etc). However, once a patient gets moved to a nursing home, the average length they live is about 1 year. We can make nursing homes cleaner and safer and we should probably get those patients outside a bit more, but there's also only so much that can be done for people in the last months of their life.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
DataWorker 6y ago
Lockdowns vs no lockdown is an false dichotomy. The lockdown didn’t impact many people like myself, and many people can still be financially impacted even without a lockdown. Some people and businesses have actually been thriving. So your model is too black and white and doesn’t really match reality.