24 ms·

Firstly let me point out that this response is neither intended as a defence of MongoDB defaults which are atrocious, or of the company, who are arguably duplic

by jen20 6y ago

Firstly let me point out that this response is neither intended as a defence of MongoDB defaults which are atrocious, or of the company, who are arguably duplicitous. However I can _quite easily_ see how a non-native English speaker could use the phrase “if you know what you are doing” to mean “if you are careful”.

yellowapple 6y ago
"If you are careful you might not lose all your data" doesn't sound very reassuring, either.
kyllo 6y ago
Perhaps, but the point is, if you're working in DevRel and you think your role is to defend the product from criticism, and you do it by placing the onus on the developer to figure out how to use your product safely, you've totally lost the plot.
- bauerm97 6y ago
  Also, if you're a DevRel, maybe you should have strong verbal and written communication skills in the language of your users? Just an idea
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  I think personally it's an abusive tactic on their part, lots of devs are concerned with being smart, by saying if you know what you're doing you can get the insecure ones to shut up. But obviously it is a tactic of the doomed.
infogulch 6y ago
Even so, they're just implicitly admitting to the very accusations that they are defending. If "running it right" is so insufficiently defined that jespen cannot figure out how to set it up, maybe your product just doesn't actually offer consistency. Sure, you're conceding at a different abstraction level, but it still means that you're failing to solve the problem of consistency for businesses that that want to solve it with your product. He just replaced "cannot consistently synchronize data" with "cannot consistently deploy a system that can consistently synchronize data". But what's the difference between those statements to people that need to solve that problem? None.
thaumasiotes 6y ago
> I can _quite easily_ see how a non-native English speaker could use the phrase “if you know what you are doing” to mean “if you are careful”. This kind of thing is a scourge. I had a Chinese friend respond to something I said once by saying "that's nice". It looks so innocent... but it's really hard to overlook the fact that "that's nice" is a serious insult coming from a native speaker. I had to ask them to please never use that phrase to me again.
- pietrovismara 6y ago
  Did the joke just went over my head or "that's nice" is a bad thing for real?
  - cosmodisk 6y ago
    I think it sits on the same level as ' it's interesting',when 9/10 times you could see that the person who said so is not even remotely interested.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      I'm not sure I agree with that. A lot of the time "interesting" serves as a filler word for "I'm not totally sure what to think about it" or "I'm not ready to articulate in 1000 words why X may or may not be a good approach right now."
  - conistonwater 6y ago
    No it's not, it depends mostly on the tone of the voice. It's often enough sarcastic, but really doesn't have to be.
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      Tone of voice does not exist in text.
      - PedroBatista 6y ago

by jen20 6y ago

yellowapple 6y ago

"If you are careful you might not lose all your data" doesn't sound very reassuring, either.

kyllo 6y ago

Perhaps, but the point is, if you're working in DevRel and you think your role is to defend the product from criticism, and you do it by placing the onus on the developer to figure out how to use your product safely, you've totally lost the plot.

bauerm97 6y ago
Also, if you're a DevRel, maybe you should have strong verbal and written communication skills in the language of your users? Just an idea
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bryanrasmussen 6y ago
I think personally it's an abusive tactic on their part, lots of devs are concerned with being smart, by saying if you know what you're doing you can get the insecure ones to shut up. But obviously it is a tactic of the doomed.

infogulch 6y ago

Even so, they're just implicitly admitting to the very accusations that they are defending. If "running it right" is so insufficiently defined that jespen cannot figure out how to set it up, maybe your product just doesn't actually offer consistency. Sure, you're conceding at a different abstraction level, but it still means that you're failing to solve the problem of consistency for businesses that that want to solve it with your product. He just replaced "cannot consistently synchronize data" with "cannot consistently deploy a system that can consistently synchronize data". But what's the difference between those statements to people that need to solve that problem? None.

thaumasiotes 6y ago

> I can _quite easily_ see how a non-native English speaker could use the phrase “if you know what you are doing” to mean “if you are careful”. This kind of thing is a scourge. I had a Chinese friend respond to something I said once by saying "that's nice". It looks so innocent... but it's really hard to overlook the fact that "that's nice" is a serious insult coming from a native speaker. I had to ask them to please never use that phrase to me again.

pietrovismara 6y ago
Did the joke just went over my head or "that's nice" is a bad thing for real?
- cosmodisk 6y ago
  I think it sits on the same level as ' it's interesting',when 9/10 times you could see that the person who said so is not even remotely interested.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    I'm not sure I agree with that. A lot of the time "interesting" serves as a filler word for "I'm not totally sure what to think about it" or "I'm not ready to articulate in 1000 words why X may or may not be a good approach right now."
- conistonwater 6y ago
  No it's not, it depends mostly on the tone of the voice. It's often enough sarcastic, but really doesn't have to be.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    Tone of voice does not exist in text.
    - PedroBatista 6y ago