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> No restrictions were placed on residents’ movements, and businesses from restaurants to hairdressers stayed open. I think most of us know at this point these

> No restrictions were placed on residents’ movements, and businesses from restaurants to hairdressers stayed open. I think most of us know at this point these measures (along with laughable things like wrapping up park benches and closing access to beaches) was never going to have any material effect on the spread of the virus, but was done anyway as a way for politicians to say “look we’re doing something!” How they kept their notoriously close quarter trains from being vectors is a good question!

JadeNB 6y ago
> I think most of us know at this point these measures (along with laughable things like wrapping up park benches and closing access to beaches) was never going to have any material effect on the spread of the virus, but was done anyway as a way for politicians to say “look we’re doing something!” Wait, are you say restricting movement and closing private spaces do not affect the spread of the virus (not just as a matter of study, but obviously)? This seems to contradict the experience in much of the US (indeed of the world—but I follow US numbers more closely, since that's where I am), where the implementation of exactly these measures reduced its spread, and where numbers seem to be starting to rise again as restrictions are eased.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Closing access to beaches and wrapping up park benches did not have any material impact on the virus spread. Would happy to be proved wrong if you have other info, though the Japan situation makes me think that’s not likely. If anything, being in outside spaces where we can get fresh air and synthesize vitamin D in the sun probably has broader positive impact to our immune system — even if it comes with abstract risks. But then again, I’m just spitballing here! Just like our elected officials did when they put their heads together and said “let’s wrap up park benches so people can’t enjoy the sun here to protect them from the virus”
- gizmo 6y ago
  How would you know closing park benches or beaches works? Studies clearly show that covid19 is primarily transmitted in enclosed spaces with poor air circulation. This is also common sense, because if the virus was so contagious that it would spread on park benches or beaches then the virus would spread like wildfire in grocery stores. But we know it doesn't because people still go to grocery stores without wearing masks or taking any other precautions and cases are dropping rapidly.
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    > How would you know closing park benches or beaches works? I was responding to what I took to be your full claim, which seemed to cover restricting movement as well as these two measures. (That's why my first question was whether I was understanding the full claim correctly.) I agree that closing or marking off park benches probably doesn't have much effect, but I don't know; but I think restricting movement and closing public spaces where people stay relatively still for an extended time (as opposed to, for example, trails on which people walk or run) do have an effect. > But we know it doesn't because people still go to grocery stores without wearing masks or taking any other precautions and cases are dropping rapidly. Not in the non-New York US! I admitted up front, and hasten to say again, that I am speaking from a US-centric perspective.
    - huonpine 6y ago
      The USA strategy unfortunately is the re-election of the current administration, a strategy that will never have widespread support so any tactics you implement will not have widespread adoption without heavy-handed enforcement. The countries that are dealing with the virus the best, were able to present a strategy to their population which allowed groups to create their own tactics to complement the overarching strategy.
jnbiche 6y ago
I agree with you about parks and beaches. But restaurants and hairdressers are known to be places where COVID-19 can be actively spread to large groups of people. And gyms are even worse. We should be encouraging people to go outdoors, and to not congregate in large groups. Finally, bear in mind that public officials, like scientists and laypeople, are just figuring all this out, too. It's a novel infectious agent, after all. But it's important to self-correct quickly. Ironically, it looks like masks may turn out to be one of the most effective interventions, yet there's a huge political backlash against them that many pols are stirring up, so 20-30% of the country will never wear them.

JadeNB 6y ago

> I think most of us know at this point these measures (along with laughable things like wrapping up park benches and closing access to beaches) was never going to have any material effect on the spread of the virus, but was done anyway as a way for politicians to say “look we’re doing something!” Wait, are you say restricting movement and closing private spaces do not affect the spread of the virus (not just as a matter of study, but obviously)? This seems to contradict the experience in much of the US (indeed of the world—but I follow US numbers more closely, since that's where I am), where the implementation of exactly these measures reduced its spread, and where numbers seem to be starting to rise again as restrictions are eased.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
Closing access to beaches and wrapping up park benches did not have any material impact on the virus spread. Would happy to be proved wrong if you have other info, though the Japan situation makes me think that’s not likely. If anything, being in outside spaces where we can get fresh air and synthesize vitamin D in the sun probably has broader positive impact to our immune system — even if it comes with abstract risks. But then again, I’m just spitballing here! Just like our elected officials did when they put their heads together and said “let’s wrap up park benches so people can’t enjoy the sun here to protect them from the virus”
gizmo 6y ago
How would you know closing park benches or beaches works? Studies clearly show that covid19 is primarily transmitted in enclosed spaces with poor air circulation. This is also common sense, because if the virus was so contagious that it would spread on park benches or beaches then the virus would spread like wildfire in grocery stores. But we know it doesn't because people still go to grocery stores without wearing masks or taking any other precautions and cases are dropping rapidly.
- JadeNB 6y ago
  > How would you know closing park benches or beaches works? I was responding to what I took to be your full claim, which seemed to cover restricting movement as well as these two measures. (That's why my first question was whether I was understanding the full claim correctly.) I agree that closing or marking off park benches probably doesn't have much effect, but I don't know; but I think restricting movement and closing public spaces where people stay relatively still for an extended time (as opposed to, for example, trails on which people walk or run) do have an effect. > But we know it doesn't because people still go to grocery stores without wearing masks or taking any other precautions and cases are dropping rapidly. Not in the non-New York US! I admitted up front, and hasten to say again, that I am speaking from a US-centric perspective.
  - huonpine 6y ago
    The USA strategy unfortunately is the re-election of the current administration, a strategy that will never have widespread support so any tactics you implement will not have widespread adoption without heavy-handed enforcement. The countries that are dealing with the virus the best, were able to present a strategy to their population which allowed groups to create their own tactics to complement the overarching strategy.

jnbiche 6y ago

I agree with you about parks and beaches. But restaurants and hairdressers are known to be places where COVID-19 can be actively spread to large groups of people. And gyms are even worse. We should be encouraging people to go outdoors, and to not congregate in large groups. Finally, bear in mind that public officials, like scientists and laypeople, are just figuring all this out, too. It's a novel infectious agent, after all. But it's important to self-correct quickly. Ironically, it looks like masks may turn out to be one of the most effective interventions, yet there's a huge political backlash against them that many pols are stirring up, so 20-30% of the country will never wear them.