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If this argument has been made for decades, then it is a bad argument that has been made for decades. > I don't understand why OK, let me try to explain. I'm

If this argument has been made for decades, then it is a bad argument that has been made for decades. > I don't understand why OK, let me try to explain. I'm not against pornography. I'm also not a prude -- if consenting adults want to have orgies, or wife swap, or insert baseball bats into body cavities, or get slapped and yelled at, go for it! I'd bet that 90+% or more of people's first exposure to sex is online videos. While there are certainly videos that show realistic sex, the vast majority are highly unrealistic and set incredibly weird expectations about what is normal. A lot of what is shown on video is bad acting, not happiness. To distinguish itself from from other videos, makers are always trying to find some new or more extreme boundary to push. A lot veers into extreme power dynamics -- boys learning about porn should not have the expectation that women like to be choked or spit on, or have jackhammer anal sex. Girls shouldn't have the expectation that that is what boys expect of them. As an adult you might say, hey, a lot of those scenarios are just entertainment, eg, those step siblings are obviously in their 20s, or obviously women don't like having 100 men ejaculate on them, but to children where this is their first exposure to sex, they absolutely don't know what is normal and this imprinting causes harm for some.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
I almost completely agree with what you say here (so upvoted) but it's what you don't say that I find disturbing. You've outlined what can be unpleasant about porn (eg. slapping women or choking them, however consensual I won't watch that) but you seem blind to the (albeit simulated) violence, sadism and killing I alluded to in mainstream films which can be far, far worse. I personally know it isn't real but to borrow and slightly amend your own sentence... "but to children where this is their first exposure to violence, they absolutely don't know what is normal and this imprinting causes harm for some" You can see the bad parts in porn, but not see the worse in films that children are freely exposed to? How come?
- kyleee 6y ago
  just because you didn't recieve a reply to that portion of your comment does not mean the commenter is "blind" to those issues
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    Then then he chose to ignore the very strong point I made. Why?
    - pmachinery 6y ago
      Possibly because it wasn't a "very strong point", it was a sarcastic two liner: > Children shouldn't be allowed to watch people being happy. We need them to stick with safe things like violence and murder. As for: > (this point has been made for decades yet somehow never sinks in with some groups and I don't understand why) I've never heard anyone make that point about pornography, only about restrictions on nudity and/or swearing on TV/movies.
      - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        In the US you seem more upset by sex than extreme violence. That was sarcasm but the point was real, valid and strong. > I've never heard anyone make that point about pornography Reallllly? Quick DDG immediately gets https://www.salon.com/2015/07/13/5_american_sex_norms_that_europeans_will_never_understand_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2015/07/13/5_american_sex_norms_that_e... "1. Extreme violence in the media is fine, just don’t show a nipple" Plenty of USAians make this point but you've never heard of it? Damnit, you have school shootings but sex, oh no!
        pmachinery 6y ago
        Your quick DDG just reinforced what I said. Try again.
        throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        I'm honestly confused. What point are you making?
        pmachinery 6y ago
- tasty_freeze 6y ago
  The person I replied to specifically said "I don't understand people who think this way (about porn)," and I addressed that specific point. The issues of ultraviolence in mainstream movies is its own issue and can be discussed on its own terms. Porn has its own issues and be discussed on its own terms. Yes, both are film media, but that is about all they share in common. It isn't a competition where issue #1 is more severe in some way than issue #2, therefore we can ignore issue #2.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    OK, now we get to it. > It isn't a competition where issue #1 is more severe in some way than issue #2, therefore we can ignore issue #2. I'm saying it's exactly that it is. Mainstream nonsexual violence is worse than porn (I'd claim), and I'd also claim, as evidenced by the strangely skewed responses here, that some people are blind to one nonsexual violence but oddly sensitive to the other, porn.
    - tasty_freeze 6y ago
      If someone has a fundraiser for cancer, do you tut tut them and say malaria kills more people than cancer, and it is disturbing that your pamphlets about your cancer cause don't even mention mosquitoes? If you think it is a competition, then OK, we simply disagree. If someone has a fundraiser for some cancer cause I may donate even though malaria kills more people every year.
      - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        I expressed myself badly. Let me try again. "Mainstream nonsexual violence is worse than porn" is what I said. That is because 'Mainstream nonsexual violence' is bad and pornography has very little harm in it, if any, though there are areas I don't want to see (so what children may see I grant they may find disturbing in their ignorance). Whereas both cancer and malaria are unquestionably very bad things. But that you are willing to equate porn with cancer is to me most disturbing of all. Well, maybe you didn't mean it that way. I don't know. Edit: let me put it a different way; there can be no upside to cancer, unlike porn.
onemoresoop 6y ago
This is spot on. I am horified at what my kids will learn as normal from watching porn when they later get access to it. There is so much garbage out there that is pushing the notion of normality that they will be utterly confused. Im not a prude either but I find “deepthroat” as utterly disgusting, someone is chocking and gagging and makes me vomit. And yet, Ive seen girls who learned to enjoy it because that makes them normal to their peers while they secretly don’t like choking or gagging. This is just one example, there are way more. Im so happy I grew up and former with less access to porn. I really dont know what the solution can be for this other than curating what types of videos they could watch. Some of the stuff is dangerous too
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  OMG :) violencedeathmurderbloodpainhurtkillkillkill... "Oh but wat about oral sex, it is teh dangerous!" I love you Americans to bits but sometimes you really are just too bloody weird. I give up.
  - bena 6y ago
    There's a difference between "oral sex" and forcing someone to choke on a penis. But you know that. Or, at the very least, you should. Address the argument made, not the one you wanted them to make.
    - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
      You're quite right. Thanks for pointing it out. Upvoted. OK, here's what he said "but I find “deepthroat” as utterly disgusting". There's no space for the fact that some women like that, or that even if they don't, adult film workers are doing a paid job. Not all oral sex involves choking or apparently being forced. But that's a blanket condemnation based on him being "disgusted" and ignoring the nonsexual violence in mainstream media. He goes on "I really dont know what the solution can be for this other than curating what types of videos they could watch" So back to curating sex videos but ignoring extreme graphic nonsexual violence?

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

I almost completely agree with what you say here (so upvoted) but it's what you don't say that I find disturbing. You've outlined what can be unpleasant about porn (eg. slapping women or choking them, however consensual I won't watch that) but you seem blind to the (albeit simulated) violence, sadism and killing I alluded to in mainstream films which can be far, far worse. I personally know it isn't real but to borrow and slightly amend your own sentence... "but to children where this is their first exposure to violence, they absolutely don't know what is normal and this imprinting causes harm for some" You can see the bad parts in porn, but not see the worse in films that children are freely exposed to? How come?

kyleee 6y ago
just because you didn't recieve a reply to that portion of your comment does not mean the commenter is "blind" to those issues
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  Then then he chose to ignore the very strong point I made. Why?
  - pmachinery 6y ago
    Possibly because it wasn't a "very strong point", it was a sarcastic two liner: > Children shouldn't be allowed to watch people being happy. We need them to stick with safe things like violence and murder. As for: > (this point has been made for decades yet somehow never sinks in with some groups and I don't understand why) I've never heard anyone make that point about pornography, only about restrictions on nudity and/or swearing on TV/movies.
    - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
      In the US you seem more upset by sex than extreme violence. That was sarcasm but the point was real, valid and strong. > I've never heard anyone make that point about pornography Reallllly? Quick DDG immediately gets https://www.salon.com/2015/07/13/5_american_sex_norms_that_europeans_will_never_understand_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2015/07/13/5_american_sex_norms_that_e... "1. Extreme violence in the media is fine, just don’t show a nipple" Plenty of USAians make this point but you've never heard of it? Damnit, you have school shootings but sex, oh no!
      - pmachinery 6y ago
        Your quick DDG just reinforced what I said. Try again.
        throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
        I'm honestly confused. What point are you making?
        pmachinery 6y ago
tasty_freeze 6y ago
The person I replied to specifically said "I don't understand people who think this way (about porn)," and I addressed that specific point. The issues of ultraviolence in mainstream movies is its own issue and can be discussed on its own terms. Porn has its own issues and be discussed on its own terms. Yes, both are film media, but that is about all they share in common. It isn't a competition where issue #1 is more severe in some way than issue #2, therefore we can ignore issue #2.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  OK, now we get to it. > It isn't a competition where issue #1 is more severe in some way than issue #2, therefore we can ignore issue #2. I'm saying it's exactly that it is. Mainstream nonsexual violence is worse than porn (I'd claim), and I'd also claim, as evidenced by the strangely skewed responses here, that some people are blind to one nonsexual violence but oddly sensitive to the other, porn.
  - tasty_freeze 6y ago
    If someone has a fundraiser for cancer, do you tut tut them and say malaria kills more people than cancer, and it is disturbing that your pamphlets about your cancer cause don't even mention mosquitoes? If you think it is a competition, then OK, we simply disagree. If someone has a fundraiser for some cancer cause I may donate even though malaria kills more people every year.
    - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
      I expressed myself badly. Let me try again. "Mainstream nonsexual violence is worse than porn" is what I said. That is because 'Mainstream nonsexual violence' is bad and pornography has very little harm in it, if any, though there are areas I don't want to see (so what children may see I grant they may find disturbing in their ignorance). Whereas both cancer and malaria are unquestionably very bad things. But that you are willing to equate porn with cancer is to me most disturbing of all. Well, maybe you didn't mean it that way. I don't know. Edit: let me put it a different way; there can be no upside to cancer, unlike porn.

onemoresoop 6y ago

This is spot on. I am horified at what my kids will learn as normal from watching porn when they later get access to it. There is so much garbage out there that is pushing the notion of normality that they will be utterly confused. Im not a prude either but I find “deepthroat” as utterly disgusting, someone is chocking and gagging and makes me vomit. And yet, Ive seen girls who learned to enjoy it because that makes them normal to their peers while they secretly don’t like choking or gagging. This is just one example, there are way more. Im so happy I grew up and former with less access to porn. I really dont know what the solution can be for this other than curating what types of videos they could watch. Some of the stuff is dangerous too

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
OMG :) violencedeathmurderbloodpainhurtkillkillkill... "Oh but wat about oral sex, it is teh dangerous!" I love you Americans to bits but sometimes you really are just too bloody weird. I give up.
- bena 6y ago
  There's a difference between "oral sex" and forcing someone to choke on a penis. But you know that. Or, at the very least, you should. Address the argument made, not the one you wanted them to make.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    You're quite right. Thanks for pointing it out. Upvoted. OK, here's what he said "but I find “deepthroat” as utterly disgusting". There's no space for the fact that some women like that, or that even if they don't, adult film workers are doing a paid job. Not all oral sex involves choking or apparently being forced. But that's a blanket condemnation based on him being "disgusted" and ignoring the nonsexual violence in mainstream media. He goes on "I really dont know what the solution can be for this other than curating what types of videos they could watch" So back to curating sex videos but ignoring extreme graphic nonsexual violence?