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You mean our modern super-computer level machines with gigabytes of RAM and GHz level processors can actually show basic animations at 60 FPS!? Wow! RIP native

You mean our modern super-computer level machines with gigabytes of RAM and GHz level processors can actually show basic animations at 60 FPS!? Wow! RIP native development, long live non-native native development?

jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
Yeah, is a bit shocking this being news in 2020...
tomaskafka 6y ago
But apparently only in the bottom sheet. Scientist estimate, though, that humanity might be able to achieve 60fps scrolling in other app areas as soon as 2035, on a schedule right after cold fusion!
tenaciousDaniel 6y ago
As someone with a shallow grasp of rendering in general, it amazes me that we can achieve near 60fps for these insanely detailed games with tons of 3D objects, and yet we find it difficult to do the same with 2D UI rendering.
- 0xDEEPFAC 6y ago
  Its the abstraction on abstraction culture which seems to be the norm these days, because, hey "ECMA script is portable and accessible"! So lets "browserify" all the things... Just wait until your BBQ has its own browser - oh shit wait https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23277594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23277594 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SCfNhyIo_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SCfNhyIo_U
  - h-cobordism 6y ago
    > hey "ECMA script is portable and accessible"! So lets "browserify" all the things It's not because JavaScript is portable or accessible (it's definitely not portable, and if you wanted accessibility you could do much better), it's simply because it's the most popular language.
    - rimliu 6y ago
      Whic is extremely stupid reason.
- gdubs 6y ago
  The bottleneck is typically CPU <-> GPU transfer. If your UI is processing data on the CPU, that information has to be shuttled over the GPU. On a platform like iOS (or MacOS) the core text rendering frameworks are built on the CPU. Text rendering, for instance, is complicated and despite a lot of experience with both native iOS development and recently with compute shader development, I couldn’t really throw out an estimate of how involved it would be to recreate something like CoreText fully on the GPU. And unless you give up CPUs, you’re still left with the problem of transferring data back and forth. More and more gets ported to the GPU through parallelized algorithms, and smart GPU memory usage — but CPUs still offer a lot in their ability to do generalized computing. This is why as I’ve gotten older I’ve come to really respect Computer Science fundamentals; the more you understand how to make the most of resource constraints — whether time, or memory, etc — the more magic you can make.
  - LeoNatan25 6y ago
    The overhead is much, much lower in native development. Having a JS bloatware adds a lot of slowdown, as does the additional nonsense layers of React Native itself. As you can see, RN developers are still boasting “60fps animations” in 2020.
  - Pulcinella 6y ago
    Also I believe the traditional drawing algorithm (e.g. the painters algorithm) is not well suited for parallelization and how gpus do work. So the gpu is “fast” at slapping a circle texture on a couple of triangles, but rendering a circle from vector data not so much. I think Apple has said that Core Animation (and maybe Core Graphics) now use Metal where possible, but vector to bitmap rendering is still done on the cpu. https://raphlinus.github.io/rust/graphics/gpu/2019/05/08/modern-2d.html https://raphlinus.github.io/rust/graphics/gpu/2019/05/08/mod...
  - izacus 6y ago
    Native framework (I'm familiar with Android) will just issue a translation coordinate change for the rendered view in this scroll. So there's no CPU <--> GPU transmission here because the view is already rendered in a texture and compositor will just move it a bit. If web frameworks really reupload the whole view to GPU on each frame, it's no wonder all apps run like arse and burn battery.
dean177 6y ago
Try being less dismissive, you might be happier and make others happier while you are at it Guaranteed good performance (the bit you picked up on) for a feature people want in an easy to use package sounds great. Well done the author and thanks for sharing your work.
zemnmez 6y ago
people will really write a bunch of opengl graphics demos and think that's all there is to ui

jfkebwjsbx 6y ago

Yeah, is a bit shocking this being news in 2020...

tomaskafka 6y ago

But apparently only in the bottom sheet. Scientist estimate, though, that humanity might be able to achieve 60fps scrolling in other app areas as soon as 2035, on a schedule right after cold fusion!

tenaciousDaniel 6y ago

As someone with a shallow grasp of rendering in general, it amazes me that we can achieve near 60fps for these insanely detailed games with tons of 3D objects, and yet we find it difficult to do the same with 2D UI rendering.

0xDEEPFAC 6y ago
Its the abstraction on abstraction culture which seems to be the norm these days, because, hey "ECMA script is portable and accessible"! So lets "browserify" all the things... Just wait until your BBQ has its own browser - oh shit wait https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23277594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23277594 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SCfNhyIo_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SCfNhyIo_U
- h-cobordism 6y ago
  > hey "ECMA script is portable and accessible"! So lets "browserify" all the things It's not because JavaScript is portable or accessible (it's definitely not portable, and if you wanted accessibility you could do much better), it's simply because it's the most popular language.
  - rimliu 6y ago
    Whic is extremely stupid reason.
gdubs 6y ago
The bottleneck is typically CPU <-> GPU transfer. If your UI is processing data on the CPU, that information has to be shuttled over the GPU. On a platform like iOS (or MacOS) the core text rendering frameworks are built on the CPU. Text rendering, for instance, is complicated and despite a lot of experience with both native iOS development and recently with compute shader development, I couldn’t really throw out an estimate of how involved it would be to recreate something like CoreText fully on the GPU. And unless you give up CPUs, you’re still left with the problem of transferring data back and forth. More and more gets ported to the GPU through parallelized algorithms, and smart GPU memory usage — but CPUs still offer a lot in their ability to do generalized computing. This is why as I’ve gotten older I’ve come to really respect Computer Science fundamentals; the more you understand how to make the most of resource constraints — whether time, or memory, etc — the more magic you can make.
- LeoNatan25 6y ago
  The overhead is much, much lower in native development. Having a JS bloatware adds a lot of slowdown, as does the additional nonsense layers of React Native itself. As you can see, RN developers are still boasting “60fps animations” in 2020.
- Pulcinella 6y ago
  Also I believe the traditional drawing algorithm (e.g. the painters algorithm) is not well suited for parallelization and how gpus do work. So the gpu is “fast” at slapping a circle texture on a couple of triangles, but rendering a circle from vector data not so much. I think Apple has said that Core Animation (and maybe Core Graphics) now use Metal where possible, but vector to bitmap rendering is still done on the cpu. https://raphlinus.github.io/rust/graphics/gpu/2019/05/08/modern-2d.html https://raphlinus.github.io/rust/graphics/gpu/2019/05/08/mod...
- izacus 6y ago
  Native framework (I'm familiar with Android) will just issue a translation coordinate change for the rendered view in this scroll. So there's no CPU <--> GPU transmission here because the view is already rendered in a texture and compositor will just move it a bit. If web frameworks really reupload the whole view to GPU on each frame, it's no wonder all apps run like arse and burn battery.

dean177 6y ago

Try being less dismissive, you might be happier and make others happier while you are at it Guaranteed good performance (the bit you picked up on) for a feature people want in an easy to use package sounds great. Well done the author and thanks for sharing your work.

zemnmez 6y ago

people will really write a bunch of opengl graphics demos and think that's all there is to ui