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The fact that intelligence agencies have been able to out maneuver the democratic process does not mean that Snowden's disclosures were unwarranted. I think yo

The fact that intelligence agencies have been able to out maneuver the democratic process does not mean that Snowden's disclosures were unwarranted. I think you have confused loyalty to the current leadership of US government spy agencies with allegiance to the American people.

badrabbit 6y ago
That's not it, I was speaking practically. The American people as a majority contradicted Snowden's opinion. He was loyal to a minority, so one can make the argument that the majority elected legitimate government has every right to consider him a saboteur. That said,I am very glad he did what he did because I believe the basic expectation of privacy surpasses the people's right to have a government they elected that represents the voice of the majority. Democracy and evem the rule of law itself exists to preserve and enable life and liberty. On the flip side, the intelligence community would argue a governments primary directive is to ensure the security of it's people, and that triumphs democracy. In the end a government exists the way it does because the military and the rich are allowing it to. They decide who is right. In this case the military's inaction against the NSA means they don't consider their hostile actions against the people as illegitimate or as a rogue insider threat to the constitution. The rich who own coeporatons also stayed in the US to the large part, which means they are OK with what the NSA has been doing against them and their customers,even if it was illegal. If either elements as a collective rejected the NSA's legitimacy the gov's position with the NSA and Snowden's ability to return safely would be different.
- EmilioMartinez 6y ago
  It's a pity for him though that his situation doesn't seem to be negotiable. The de facto stance of America is that the revelations were not shocking enough to alter the status quo. So post-hoc one could imagine that the exposed NSA could have just been a transparent NSA from the start. But the way the story unfolded, despite not shocking the system deeply, he's still left playing the part of the traitor. He probably did make life more difficult for the NSA though, as I'm pretty sure a lot of people ramped up cybersecurity.
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    His position revolves around his own claims about his revelations. I think a future administration might convict him as a traitor and pardon him. But I don't think he can avoid a trial if he returns.
- etrabroline 6y ago
  >The American people as a majority contradicted Snowden's opinion It took me 5 seconds to find this from Pew Research: >A majority of Americans (54%) disapprove of the U.S. government’s collection of telephone and internet data as part of anti-terrorism efforts, https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/29/what-americans-think-about-nsa-surveillance-national-security-and-privacy/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/29/what-americ... Just claiming that people agree with you does not make it so. By your logic the NSA has committed treason because a majority of Americans disapprove of what they're doing.
  - badrabbit 6y ago
    Treason is when you aid a foreign enemy or commit sedition,the NSA did not do that. I have seen different polls that favor the FBI regarding backdooring iphones (to contrast with your poll).

badrabbit 6y ago

That's not it, I was speaking practically. The American people as a majority contradicted Snowden's opinion. He was loyal to a minority, so one can make the argument that the majority elected legitimate government has every right to consider him a saboteur. That said,I am very glad he did what he did because I believe the basic expectation of privacy surpasses the people's right to have a government they elected that represents the voice of the majority. Democracy and evem the rule of law itself exists to preserve and enable life and liberty. On the flip side, the intelligence community would argue a governments primary directive is to ensure the security of it's people, and that triumphs democracy. In the end a government exists the way it does because the military and the rich are allowing it to. They decide who is right. In this case the military's inaction against the NSA means they don't consider their hostile actions against the people as illegitimate or as a rogue insider threat to the constitution. The rich who own coeporatons also stayed in the US to the large part, which means they are OK with what the NSA has been doing against them and their customers,even if it was illegal. If either elements as a collective rejected the NSA's legitimacy the gov's position with the NSA and Snowden's ability to return safely would be different.

EmilioMartinez 6y ago
It's a pity for him though that his situation doesn't seem to be negotiable. The de facto stance of America is that the revelations were not shocking enough to alter the status quo. So post-hoc one could imagine that the exposed NSA could have just been a transparent NSA from the start. But the way the story unfolded, despite not shocking the system deeply, he's still left playing the part of the traitor. He probably did make life more difficult for the NSA though, as I'm pretty sure a lot of people ramped up cybersecurity.
- badrabbit 6y ago
  His position revolves around his own claims about his revelations. I think a future administration might convict him as a traitor and pardon him. But I don't think he can avoid a trial if he returns.
etrabroline 6y ago
>The American people as a majority contradicted Snowden's opinion It took me 5 seconds to find this from Pew Research: >A majority of Americans (54%) disapprove of the U.S. government’s collection of telephone and internet data as part of anti-terrorism efforts, https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/29/what-americans-think-about-nsa-surveillance-national-security-and-privacy/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/29/what-americ... Just claiming that people agree with you does not make it so. By your logic the NSA has committed treason because a majority of Americans disapprove of what they're doing.
- badrabbit 6y ago
  Treason is when you aid a foreign enemy or commit sedition,the NSA did not do that. I have seen different polls that favor the FBI regarding backdooring iphones (to contrast with your poll).