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The real tragedy here is that while it's almost certain no civilians will die from radiation poisoning in this case, there quite likely will be or have already

The real tragedy here is that while it's almost certain no civilians will die from radiation poisoning in this case, there quite likely will be or have already been deaths stemming from lack of electrical power. But people dying from illness from lack of clean water because their water treatment plant is offline and their hospital is out of emergency power doesn't get TV ratings, pageviews, and political attention like apocalyptic visions of radioactive fallout.

bhousel 16y ago
The loss of power is actually one of the aspects of the situation that I find especially tragic. The USS Ronald Reagan is only 100 miles offshore and has its own nuclear power plant that could be tied into the local grid to provide emergency power to things like the water treatment plants, hospitals, and even the cooling system at the Fukushima Dai-ichi facility. I know the details of parking an aircraft carrier outside a devastated port city and plugging it into the grid aren't trivial, but I wonder if it's something that's been considered? FWIW: some great discussion here: http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=52136 http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=52136
- bdonlan 16y ago
  The problem would be that of matching frequency and phase with the mainland grid. The Kantou, Touhoku, and Hokkaidou area grids run at 50hz, unlike the North American standard of 60hz - so if the ship is using 60hz they'd have to convert to DC and back to AC; this conversion equipment may not be easily available immediately. Even if the frequency matches, you'd need to match phase with the grid as a whole (or intentionally isolate the segment of the grid you're powering). It's safe to say the reactors in an aircraft carrier aren't designed with phase adjustment in mind. You'd also need some very heavy duty cables to link to the ship's internal grid. And there's no guarantee that the ship would have enough sheer power to do something like that. Moreover, if the local grid itself is devastated, you have nothing to plug into in the first place...
  - bhousel 16y ago
    Yeah, it's no small task, but definitely possible. Japan's electrical grid actually operates at both 50hz some places and 60hz in other places, so it's likely that they have the equipment somewhere that could be flown in by helicopter to make it happen. The electrical engineer in me is fascinated by this stuff, so I submitted a new topic. Maybe people more knowledgeable will comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2327908 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2327908
    - bdonlan 16y ago
      They do indeed have some conversion stations, but these stations are already working at full capacity trying to support the kantou area grid (which is having rolling blackouts due to power plant shutdowns). They're also probably not very portable.
- lutorm 16y ago
  This sounds good in theory, but I doubt there's even a functioning grid to plug into. If the grid was ok, they surely would have been able to bring in at least some amount of power from unharmed areas.
lutorm 16y ago
No, the real tragedy is the now estimated >10,000 people dead from the tsunami and earthquake itself. That said, I don't get your point. It's not like they could run the reactors if they wanted to. Those people you are talking about are dying because a natural disaster took out the entire infrastructure. That's totally independent of what's going on at the nuclear plants. Besides, by what knowledge are you claiming that it's "almost certain" noone will die?
- mortenjorck 16y ago
  Yes, certainly the initial loss of life is the worst part of this. But there are still many more lives at risk, and not from radiation. The radiation most civilians see from a BWR steam release will be measured in microsieverts -- one CT scan equals thousands of those. The cleanup workers are going to be at higher risk, but I think it's safe to say none of them will die from the doses they are receiving. Ultimately, the danger from radiation in this case is vastly outweighed by the other dangers associated with a flooded area with no power, and that's what is so unfortunate about the media coverage about Fukushima; it's overshadowing the real ongoing danger to human lives.
  - scott_s 16y ago
    As we can see in this discussion, what happens at Fukushima may impact nuclear policy throughout the globe.
bioh42_2 16y ago
...there quite likely will be or have already been deaths stemming from lack of electrical power. Last I heard the rolling blackouts were not needed because everyone voluntarily reduced power use. Also planed rolling blackout are designed to be as safe as possible. But people dying from illness from lack of clean water because their water treatment plant is offline and their hospital is out of emergency power.. This is Japan we're talking about, not Haiti. The tsunami hit, it was a huge tragedy, but it is over and people are recovering. The nuclear disaster on the other hand is happening as we speak. Naturally people are more interested in the ongoing danger with a great range of possible outcomes.

bhousel 16y ago

The loss of power is actually one of the aspects of the situation that I find especially tragic. The USS Ronald Reagan is only 100 miles offshore and has its own nuclear power plant that could be tied into the local grid to provide emergency power to things like the water treatment plants, hospitals, and even the cooling system at the Fukushima Dai-ichi facility. I know the details of parking an aircraft carrier outside a devastated port city and plugging it into the grid aren't trivial, but I wonder if it's something that's been considered? FWIW: some great discussion here: http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=52136 http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=52136

bdonlan 16y ago
The problem would be that of matching frequency and phase with the mainland grid. The Kantou, Touhoku, and Hokkaidou area grids run at 50hz, unlike the North American standard of 60hz - so if the ship is using 60hz they'd have to convert to DC and back to AC; this conversion equipment may not be easily available immediately. Even if the frequency matches, you'd need to match phase with the grid as a whole (or intentionally isolate the segment of the grid you're powering). It's safe to say the reactors in an aircraft carrier aren't designed with phase adjustment in mind. You'd also need some very heavy duty cables to link to the ship's internal grid. And there's no guarantee that the ship would have enough sheer power to do something like that. Moreover, if the local grid itself is devastated, you have nothing to plug into in the first place...
- bhousel 16y ago
  Yeah, it's no small task, but definitely possible. Japan's electrical grid actually operates at both 50hz some places and 60hz in other places, so it's likely that they have the equipment somewhere that could be flown in by helicopter to make it happen. The electrical engineer in me is fascinated by this stuff, so I submitted a new topic. Maybe people more knowledgeable will comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2327908 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2327908
  - bdonlan 16y ago
    They do indeed have some conversion stations, but these stations are already working at full capacity trying to support the kantou area grid (which is having rolling blackouts due to power plant shutdowns). They're also probably not very portable.
lutorm 16y ago
This sounds good in theory, but I doubt there's even a functioning grid to plug into. If the grid was ok, they surely would have been able to bring in at least some amount of power from unharmed areas.

lutorm 16y ago

No, the real tragedy is the now estimated >10,000 people dead from the tsunami and earthquake itself. That said, I don't get your point. It's not like they could run the reactors if they wanted to. Those people you are talking about are dying because a natural disaster took out the entire infrastructure. That's totally independent of what's going on at the nuclear plants. Besides, by what knowledge are you claiming that it's "almost certain" noone will die?

mortenjorck 16y ago
Yes, certainly the initial loss of life is the worst part of this. But there are still many more lives at risk, and not from radiation. The radiation most civilians see from a BWR steam release will be measured in microsieverts -- one CT scan equals thousands of those. The cleanup workers are going to be at higher risk, but I think it's safe to say none of them will die from the doses they are receiving. Ultimately, the danger from radiation in this case is vastly outweighed by the other dangers associated with a flooded area with no power, and that's what is so unfortunate about the media coverage about Fukushima; it's overshadowing the real ongoing danger to human lives.
- scott_s 16y ago
  As we can see in this discussion, what happens at Fukushima may impact nuclear policy throughout the globe.

bioh42_2 16y ago

...there quite likely will be or have already been deaths stemming from lack of electrical power. Last I heard the rolling blackouts were not needed because everyone voluntarily reduced power use. Also planed rolling blackout are designed to be as safe as possible. But people dying from illness from lack of clean water because their water treatment plant is offline and their hospital is out of emergency power.. This is Japan we're talking about, not Haiti. The tsunami hit, it was a huge tragedy, but it is over and people are recovering. The nuclear disaster on the other hand is happening as we speak. Naturally people are more interested in the ongoing danger with a great range of possible outcomes.