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I know many ppl are going to defend "America" here. But remember who you are defending. Great power rivalry is bad for corporate profit and amazing for wage l

I know many ppl are going to defend "America" here. But remember who you are defending. Great power rivalry is bad for corporate profit and amazing for wage laborer, which most of HN is. If you are an worker in North America, this type of headline should be a moment of celebration.

theredbox 6y ago
We are defending western civilization. I would rather China to collapse than to see it replace the US of A. China is actively trying to erase any minorities by replacing them with han chinese. It is an evil, vile country and it needs to fundamentally change before we accept its ambitions.
- leto_ii 6y ago
  > We are defending western civilization. I've rarely seen this kind of hiperbole on hn. Who is we? What does it mean to defend? What exactly is the connection to Western civilization here? > I would rather China to collapse than to see it replace the US of A. Is this in any way pertinent to the topic being discussed? Is there a risk that China would collapse if Huawei gets into business trouble? Is there any risk that China would "replace" the US if Huawei doesn't get into trouble?
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  Guarantee you're going to catch downvotes for this comment, but you're 100% right. The evils of the US and China are not even comparable in the modern era. A million plus in concentration camps, secret police disappearing journalists/doctors/dissidents, absolute authoritarian control over citizens lives, replacement of ethnic minorities en masse, organ harvesting, wholesale theft of IP and technology, etc etc etc. It's such a tired and played out argument of "but in 1973 America did [bad thing]".
  - ddoolin 6y ago
    America still does bad things to this day, and they can definitely be compared to China's bad things...but one may far outweigh the other. I agree with the GP's sentiment but there's no reason we can't offer criticism on both.
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      Sure, you _can_ compare them, just like you can compare a '93 Civic and a Model S.
  - dang 6y ago
    Please do not take HN threads further into generic ideological and/or nationalistic battle. It is tedious, predictable, nasty, and off topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20ideolog&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- whylie 6y ago
  100% agree - definitely an unpopular opinion on this site from my experience but I appreciate your post.
  - dang 6y ago
    Between this comment and the ethnic attack in your other recent comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23277011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23277011), I have to tell you that any more of this will get you banned here.
    - whylie 6y ago
      Great - you should then uphold the same standards against pro-CCP users instead of promoting them on this site bud.
- dang 6y ago
  Nationalistic flamewar is not allowed here and, in this vitrolic a form ("it is an evil, vile country?" good grief) will get you banned from HN. Do we really want HN to be a place where Chinese users and users with China-related backgrounds are hounded out of here on racial grounds? Can anyone believe that I even have to ask this? No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've posted ethnically/nationalistically-tinged attacks to HN before, and personal attacks before, and we've asked you to stop these before. If you do it again we will have to ban you again, so please stop.
  - theredbox 6y ago
    What attacks?
    - dang 6y ago
      Apart from "it is an evil, vile country", etc., above, here are the two past cases when we've chided your current account: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20357430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20357430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22538538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22538538 But there are more recent cases like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23135072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23135072, which is obviously unacceptable.
      - theredbox 6y ago
        I seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Might be an american interpretation that you see between the lines. I have literally no idea why any of these would be considered offensive? Blunt and direct sure ...but offensive? Does not this site promote inclusivity? or does it try to cater only to those that can navigate through american norms?
        dang 6y ago
        I'm happy to try to help you understand if you're asking in good faith, but those questions are somehow too open-ended for me to efficiently answer. If you can make them more specific I can take a crack at it.
luckydata 6y ago
Healthy business rivalry is good, systematic theft and cloning of superior products is what we’re talking about here and huawei absolutely deserves the “corporate death penalty” for its behavior.
- ddoolin 6y ago
  What if the Chinese government is working overtime to prevent the superior companies from reaching their markets? Should the Chinese people be stuck with inferior products? I'm not condoning it at all but this is about more than just Huawei. China is doing this with more than just Huawei, anyway, just take a look at what COMAC has been doing.
  - luckydata 6y ago
    That's a losing battle, there's no point in fighting for the Chinese market since it's not a real market. The winner there will always be a state controlled entity until the political environment changes. But Chinese companies should absolutely be barred from doing business outside of China as their influence is toxic to democracy and freedom. When things change, so I will change my mind.
    - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
      2017 revenue from China (USD): * Apple: 44.8 Billion * Intel: 14.8 Billion * Qualcomm: 14.6 Billion * Boeing: 11.9 Billion * Micron Technology: 10.4 Billion Based on [1]. Meanwhile, "Europe's listed firms expect to glean $514 billion in revenue from China."[2] I just don't understand where people get this idea that Western companies can't do business in China. They have a massive presence in China, unmatched by the presence of any Chinese company in the US or Europe. 1. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-the-us-companies-with-the-most-at-stake-in-china-2018-03-29 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-... 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-markets-eu/europes-listed-firms-expect-to-glean-514-billion-in-revenue-from-china-idUSKCN1PN19H https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-markets-eu/euro...
DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
Until the wage laborer is sent to die in the wars this sort of conflict inevitably spawns.

theredbox 6y ago

We are defending western civilization. I would rather China to collapse than to see it replace the US of A. China is actively trying to erase any minorities by replacing them with han chinese. It is an evil, vile country and it needs to fundamentally change before we accept its ambitions.

leto_ii 6y ago
> We are defending western civilization. I've rarely seen this kind of hiperbole on hn. Who is we? What does it mean to defend? What exactly is the connection to Western civilization here? > I would rather China to collapse than to see it replace the US of A. Is this in any way pertinent to the topic being discussed? Is there a risk that China would collapse if Huawei gets into business trouble? Is there any risk that China would "replace" the US if Huawei doesn't get into trouble?
ciarannolan 6y ago
Guarantee you're going to catch downvotes for this comment, but you're 100% right. The evils of the US and China are not even comparable in the modern era. A million plus in concentration camps, secret police disappearing journalists/doctors/dissidents, absolute authoritarian control over citizens lives, replacement of ethnic minorities en masse, organ harvesting, wholesale theft of IP and technology, etc etc etc. It's such a tired and played out argument of "but in 1973 America did [bad thing]".
- ddoolin 6y ago
  America still does bad things to this day, and they can definitely be compared to China's bad things...but one may far outweigh the other. I agree with the GP's sentiment but there's no reason we can't offer criticism on both.
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    Sure, you _can_ compare them, just like you can compare a '93 Civic and a Model S.
- dang 6y ago
  Please do not take HN threads further into generic ideological and/or nationalistic battle. It is tedious, predictable, nasty, and off topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20ideolog&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
whylie 6y ago
100% agree - definitely an unpopular opinion on this site from my experience but I appreciate your post.
- dang 6y ago
  Between this comment and the ethnic attack in your other recent comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23277011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23277011), I have to tell you that any more of this will get you banned here.
  - whylie 6y ago
    Great - you should then uphold the same standards against pro-CCP users instead of promoting them on this site bud.
dang 6y ago
Nationalistic flamewar is not allowed here and, in this vitrolic a form ("it is an evil, vile country?" good grief) will get you banned from HN. Do we really want HN to be a place where Chinese users and users with China-related backgrounds are hounded out of here on racial grounds? Can anyone believe that I even have to ask this? No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've posted ethnically/nationalistically-tinged attacks to HN before, and personal attacks before, and we've asked you to stop these before. If you do it again we will have to ban you again, so please stop.
- theredbox 6y ago
  What attacks?
  - dang 6y ago
    Apart from "it is an evil, vile country", etc., above, here are the two past cases when we've chided your current account: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20357430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20357430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22538538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22538538 But there are more recent cases like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23135072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23135072, which is obviously unacceptable.
    - theredbox 6y ago
      I seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Might be an american interpretation that you see between the lines. I have literally no idea why any of these would be considered offensive? Blunt and direct sure ...but offensive? Does not this site promote inclusivity? or does it try to cater only to those that can navigate through american norms?
      - dang 6y ago
        I'm happy to try to help you understand if you're asking in good faith, but those questions are somehow too open-ended for me to efficiently answer. If you can make them more specific I can take a crack at it.

luckydata 6y ago

Healthy business rivalry is good, systematic theft and cloning of superior products is what we’re talking about here and huawei absolutely deserves the “corporate death penalty” for its behavior.

ddoolin 6y ago
What if the Chinese government is working overtime to prevent the superior companies from reaching their markets? Should the Chinese people be stuck with inferior products? I'm not condoning it at all but this is about more than just Huawei. China is doing this with more than just Huawei, anyway, just take a look at what COMAC has been doing.
- luckydata 6y ago
  That's a losing battle, there's no point in fighting for the Chinese market since it's not a real market. The winner there will always be a state controlled entity until the political environment changes. But Chinese companies should absolutely be barred from doing business outside of China as their influence is toxic to democracy and freedom. When things change, so I will change my mind.
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    2017 revenue from China (USD): * Apple: 44.8 Billion * Intel: 14.8 Billion * Qualcomm: 14.6 Billion * Boeing: 11.9 Billion * Micron Technology: 10.4 Billion Based on [1]. Meanwhile, "Europe's listed firms expect to glean $514 billion in revenue from China."[2] I just don't understand where people get this idea that Western companies can't do business in China. They have a massive presence in China, unmatched by the presence of any Chinese company in the US or Europe. 1. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-the-us-companies-with-the-most-at-stake-in-china-2018-03-29 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-war-watch-these-are-... 2. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-markets-eu/europes-listed-firms-expect-to-glean-514-billion-in-revenue-from-china-idUSKCN1PN19H https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-markets-eu/euro...

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago

Until the wage laborer is sent to die in the wars this sort of conflict inevitably spawns.