7 ms·

I meditate ten minutes a day. It does absolutely nothing for me.

by throw1234651234 6y ago

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
Could I ask why you continue to do it?
- throw1234651234 6y ago
  "research says / better safe than sorry" - kind of like running, not eating sugar, doing n-back training, etc
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    But if you're just doing it to do it, especially with something like meditation, does it actually have value? No sugar certainly, but meditation is really just there for the emotional effects.
  - rconti 6y ago
    huh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back
    - throw1234651234 6y ago
      It's a method for working memory training, which is linked to IQ.
  - yowlingcat 6y ago
    Doing things just because research says you should do it, or because you're better safe than sorry, is simply punting the decision and the cognitive understanding to an authority. You shouldn't be surprised when none of these things "work" -- do you even understand why they should?
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      The sugar thing will work whether he believes it or not.
      - yowlingcat 6y ago
        Belief is your word, not mine. If you don't jump in front of the train, you have avoided that hazard. But if you understand why your parent told you not to jump in front of the train, you might also be able to independently figure out why you shouldn't jump in front of a speeding car. Can you see what I'm getting at here? EDIT: Sorry. Originally said "what I'm driving at here". It's been a long week and I'm subconsciously making bad puns.
        retsibsi 6y ago
        Still, not jumping in front of the train will 'work' regardless of whether you understand why. And it's a lot more useful than remaining agnostic about train-jumping until you understand the physical principles involved. Agreed that genuine understanding is more useful, of course -- but correctly choosing which authorities to believe (and with what level of confidence) is often a necessary second-best. How many things do any of us truly understand in full detail?
        yowlingcat 6y ago
        What if jumping in front of a train ("trainspotting") worked regardless of whether you understood why? > How many things do any of us truly understand in full detail? Can you visualize the mechanism? You either do or you don't. Maybe the visualization is misleading. Maybe it's not. But if you're at least doing the motions there, you're revising the mechanism rather than reinventing the wheel from scratch.
        retsibsi 6y ago
        > What if jumping in front of a train ("trainspotting") worked regardless of whether you understood why? Not sure if I understand you here (I don't get the 'trainspotting' reference), but: in a world where not jumping in front of trains was fatal, parents would instruct their kids to jump in front of trains, and the ones who took their advice would survive. In a world where it didn't matter so much either way, who knows, maybe some parents would needlessly forbid their children from jumping in front of trains. So the kids who didn't blindly follow their parents' advice might benefit from their curiosity. But if they made a habit of ignoring their parents' advice until they fully understood the reasoning behind it, they would do a bunch of other stupidly dangerous things and probably die. > Can you visualize the mechanism? You either do or you don't. Maybe the visualization is misleading. Maybe it's not. But if you're at least doing the motions there, you're revising the mechanism rather than reinventing the wheel from scratch. I think there's a big gap between having some kind of mental model, and having a sufficiently detailed, accurate, robust mental model to make independent judgments in important contexts. Sure, a rough high-level understanding can be useful as a preliminary bullshit detector, pinging for things that should be taken with great scepticism pending further investigation; but unless you understand a topic in full detail, you're always at risk of making 'logical' deductions that fail because of unknown (to you) unknowns.
tacheiordache 6y ago
Ever thought that you may be doing it wrong? This is often my first tool to turn to when something isn't as others describe. But once again, you may be right and it may not work for you. There is nothing in this world that fits everybody, we have some variations in what we respond to
- throw1234651234 6y ago
  Don't think there is anything to it past "focus on one thing / focus on breath."
  - grugagag 6y ago
    To many, there are life changing effects, from being generally more aware to being more calm or sleeping better. Clearly, if for you it doesn't do any of that, you're one of those who cannot benefit from meditation. But you may never know if you're inadvertently not doing it right. So many times in my life I thought I was doing something right only to discover much much later that somehow I was doing it the wrong way.
  - sev 6y ago
    If you think it’s easy to focus on one thing, you haven’t tried meditation.
  - slsii 6y ago
    I’m fairly sure there is more to it from a technique perspective. Works like the Visuddhimagga and the Vimuttimagga explain the whole “focus on one thing / focus on breath” thing in extraordinary detail, and I consider these basically a forgotten technology. I have found these micro-steps to be really helpful in learning to meditate more deeply but are almost entirely ignored in the Western explanations and meditation apps. That said, the traditional texts are still hard to parse. I’ve considered writing a manual-to-the-manual of sorts that explains the same concepts but in a modern way. I should mention that Leigh Brasington has some really awesome content out there (videos, books, and articles). I am not a master meditator, but if that sort of a thing exists, Leigh is.
GuiA 6y ago
Maybe you'd feel way worse if you didn't do it.
pengaru 6y ago
How do you know it does absolutely nothing for you? At the very least, those 10 minutes you're spending meditating are 10 minutes not spent doing something else. Whatever that something else is, would very likely have a different effect. So if anything, meditating is affecting you by displacing something else that would leave its own mark. In some ways, I think "doing absolutely nothing" is the point of meditation, perhaps you're just not appreciating it yet.
- ta17711771 6y ago
  Yeah, there's people that see no difference from eating vegetables, or, when taking drugs "they don't affect me". Pretty sure many of those people simply aren't good at feeling themselves.
- swayvil 6y ago
  Too much irony. Yes, meditation should deliver noticeable results. If it doesn't then you are doing it wrong.
  - thraway2323 6y ago
    It's hearing this kind of obviously silly but overly-confident statements that turn people away from this "mumbo jumbo". Clinically tested medication whose results can be replicated again and again doesn't work the same on all people but meditation? Yeah, that works or you're doing it wrong. One of the things my meditation helped me realize is that I don't hold any ultimate truths. Seeing so many people insist they do is a clear sign they are doing it wrong.
  - Mirioron 6y ago
    Or alternatively, meditation doesn't really do much and people are benefiting from the placebo effect.
bluishgreen 6y ago
When you start meditating, 10 mins a day is bullshit. You need 30 mins before you can get the hang of it. When you start out, go to a retreat if you can afford the time and money and sit there for 3 days and watch your mind. If you can't do this (I myself couldn't do this btw), then start with minimum 1 hour everyday first thing in the morning. At the 2 month mark you will see changes. After that you can bring the time down based on how much you can commit, still not less than 30 mins IMO. But give this a try with min 1 hour. It is life changing simple thing to not be able to give it at least a shot. I tried it for 10 years on and off before it finally clicked.
- Enginerrrd 6y ago
  I can roughly offer supporting anecdotal evidence for this. I went years meditating 10-15 min increments without achieving much at all. It was only when I switched to doing 45-60 min every single day for about 3-4 months that some crazy and life-changing breakthroughs started happening.
  - pwdisswordfish2 6y ago
    Crazy and life-changing breakthroughs?
    - HugeAcumen 6y ago
      Sane and life-changing breakthroughs.
    - Enginerrrd 6y ago
      Elimination of my social anxiety, near-constant mindfulness throughout the day, profound and lasting experiences of joy, some weird purging of like every negative emotion I've ever internalized, significant memory enhancements, etc. It was definitely not all sunshine and rainbows going through that process, especially since it caught me so off guard (I only got into meditation to have a bit more focus and discipline, and I even thought I was pretty practiced as a meditator before I started getting really diligent about it, but boy was I wrong.) ...but on balance, I'd overwhelmingly say it was worth it.
bluishgreen 6y ago
throw1234651234 is simply stating their experience in earnest. I don't think downvotes are necessary here. Does their views on meditation threaten your own? Then go back to your cushions, meditate more.
- jodrellblank 6y ago
  > simply stating their experience in earnest If they were doing that, they could use a normal username. Signing up with a throwaway to post a one-line "doesn't work" criticism about something many people feel strongly about is much more akin to "trolling" than "sharing in earnest".
  - nathcd 6y ago
    I somewhat agree with your point, but I think it's pretty important that they said "It does absolutely nothing for me" - calling this as a '"doesn't work" criticism' is dishonest.
    - throw1234651234 6y ago
      Go through my profile - I have been posting on this topic for a while, including in this thread. I recently read "Altered Traits", as a result of threads like these. Unfortunately, instead of the promised research, it was tripe that culminated in "I started taking medication for my high blood pressure because meditation doesn't work." I am extremely interested in the subject, but I am also interested in concrete results.
  - retsibsi 6y ago
    A more charitable interpretation is that they believe this kind of 'null anecdote' is useful: usually people who experience major effects (positive or negative) are much more likely to share their experiences, and that skews the body of anecdotal evidence. (As for the account, who knows -- maybe they correctly anticipated downvotes, but believed the comment was nevertheless worth making -- but it is several months old.)
scns 6y ago
In "Mind Illuminated" it is suggested to start with 15 minutes and add 5 after each week. This book has been recommended here several times before, helped at least one person that meditated for years to advance further. Written by a neuroscientist that teaches meditation for decades.

I meditate ten minutes a day. It does absolutely nothing for me.

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

Could I ask why you continue to do it?

throw1234651234 6y ago
"research says / better safe than sorry" - kind of like running, not eating sugar, doing n-back training, etc
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  But if you're just doing it to do it, especially with something like meditation, does it actually have value? No sugar certainly, but meditation is really just there for the emotional effects.
- rconti 6y ago
  huh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back
  - throw1234651234 6y ago
    It's a method for working memory training, which is linked to IQ.
- yowlingcat 6y ago
  Doing things just because research says you should do it, or because you're better safe than sorry, is simply punting the decision and the cognitive understanding to an authority. You shouldn't be surprised when none of these things "work" -- do you even understand why they should?
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    The sugar thing will work whether he believes it or not.
    - yowlingcat 6y ago
      Belief is your word, not mine. If you don't jump in front of the train, you have avoided that hazard. But if you understand why your parent told you not to jump in front of the train, you might also be able to independently figure out why you shouldn't jump in front of a speeding car. Can you see what I'm getting at here? EDIT: Sorry. Originally said "what I'm driving at here". It's been a long week and I'm subconsciously making bad puns.
      - retsibsi 6y ago
        Still, not jumping in front of the train will 'work' regardless of whether you understand why. And it's a lot more useful than remaining agnostic about train-jumping until you understand the physical principles involved. Agreed that genuine understanding is more useful, of course -- but correctly choosing which authorities to believe (and with what level of confidence) is often a necessary second-best. How many things do any of us truly understand in full detail?
        yowlingcat 6y ago
        What if jumping in front of a train ("trainspotting") worked regardless of whether you understood why? > How many things do any of us truly understand in full detail? Can you visualize the mechanism? You either do or you don't. Maybe the visualization is misleading. Maybe it's not. But if you're at least doing the motions there, you're revising the mechanism rather than reinventing the wheel from scratch.
        retsibsi 6y ago
        > What if jumping in front of a train ("trainspotting") worked regardless of whether you understood why? Not sure if I understand you here (I don't get the 'trainspotting' reference), but: in a world where not jumping in front of trains was fatal, parents would instruct their kids to jump in front of trains, and the ones who took their advice would survive. In a world where it didn't matter so much either way, who knows, maybe some parents would needlessly forbid their children from jumping in front of trains. So the kids who didn't blindly follow their parents' advice might benefit from their curiosity. But if they made a habit of ignoring their parents' advice until they fully understood the reasoning behind it, they would do a bunch of other stupidly dangerous things and probably die. > Can you visualize the mechanism? You either do or you don't. Maybe the visualization is misleading. Maybe it's not. But if you're at least doing the motions there, you're revising the mechanism rather than reinventing the wheel from scratch. I think there's a big gap between having some kind of mental model, and having a sufficiently detailed, accurate, robust mental model to make independent judgments in important contexts. Sure, a rough high-level understanding can be useful as a preliminary bullshit detector, pinging for things that should be taken with great scepticism pending further investigation; but unless you understand a topic in full detail, you're always at risk of making 'logical' deductions that fail because of unknown (to you) unknowns.

tacheiordache 6y ago

Ever thought that you may be doing it wrong? This is often my first tool to turn to when something isn't as others describe. But once again, you may be right and it may not work for you. There is nothing in this world that fits everybody, we have some variations in what we respond to

throw1234651234 6y ago
Don't think there is anything to it past "focus on one thing / focus on breath."
- grugagag 6y ago
  To many, there are life changing effects, from being generally more aware to being more calm or sleeping better. Clearly, if for you it doesn't do any of that, you're one of those who cannot benefit from meditation. But you may never know if you're inadvertently not doing it right. So many times in my life I thought I was doing something right only to discover much much later that somehow I was doing it the wrong way.
- sev 6y ago
  If you think it’s easy to focus on one thing, you haven’t tried meditation.
- slsii 6y ago
  I’m fairly sure there is more to it from a technique perspective. Works like the Visuddhimagga and the Vimuttimagga explain the whole “focus on one thing / focus on breath” thing in extraordinary detail, and I consider these basically a forgotten technology. I have found these micro-steps to be really helpful in learning to meditate more deeply but are almost entirely ignored in the Western explanations and meditation apps. That said, the traditional texts are still hard to parse. I’ve considered writing a manual-to-the-manual of sorts that explains the same concepts but in a modern way. I should mention that Leigh Brasington has some really awesome content out there (videos, books, and articles). I am not a master meditator, but if that sort of a thing exists, Leigh is.

GuiA 6y ago

Maybe you'd feel way worse if you didn't do it.

pengaru 6y ago

How do you know it does absolutely nothing for you? At the very least, those 10 minutes you're spending meditating are 10 minutes not spent doing something else. Whatever that something else is, would very likely have a different effect. So if anything, meditating is affecting you by displacing something else that would leave its own mark. In some ways, I think "doing absolutely nothing" is the point of meditation, perhaps you're just not appreciating it yet.

ta17711771 6y ago
Yeah, there's people that see no difference from eating vegetables, or, when taking drugs "they don't affect me". Pretty sure many of those people simply aren't good at feeling themselves.
swayvil 6y ago
Too much irony. Yes, meditation should deliver noticeable results. If it doesn't then you are doing it wrong.
- thraway2323 6y ago
  It's hearing this kind of obviously silly but overly-confident statements that turn people away from this "mumbo jumbo". Clinically tested medication whose results can be replicated again and again doesn't work the same on all people but meditation? Yeah, that works or you're doing it wrong. One of the things my meditation helped me realize is that I don't hold any ultimate truths. Seeing so many people insist they do is a clear sign they are doing it wrong.
- Mirioron 6y ago
  Or alternatively, meditation doesn't really do much and people are benefiting from the placebo effect.

bluishgreen 6y ago

When you start meditating, 10 mins a day is bullshit. You need 30 mins before you can get the hang of it. When you start out, go to a retreat if you can afford the time and money and sit there for 3 days and watch your mind. If you can't do this (I myself couldn't do this btw), then start with minimum 1 hour everyday first thing in the morning. At the 2 month mark you will see changes. After that you can bring the time down based on how much you can commit, still not less than 30 mins IMO. But give this a try with min 1 hour. It is life changing simple thing to not be able to give it at least a shot. I tried it for 10 years on and off before it finally clicked.

Enginerrrd 6y ago
I can roughly offer supporting anecdotal evidence for this. I went years meditating 10-15 min increments without achieving much at all. It was only when I switched to doing 45-60 min every single day for about 3-4 months that some crazy and life-changing breakthroughs started happening.
- pwdisswordfish2 6y ago
  Crazy and life-changing breakthroughs?
  - HugeAcumen 6y ago
    Sane and life-changing breakthroughs.
  - Enginerrrd 6y ago
    Elimination of my social anxiety, near-constant mindfulness throughout the day, profound and lasting experiences of joy, some weird purging of like every negative emotion I've ever internalized, significant memory enhancements, etc. It was definitely not all sunshine and rainbows going through that process, especially since it caught me so off guard (I only got into meditation to have a bit more focus and discipline, and I even thought I was pretty practiced as a meditator before I started getting really diligent about it, but boy was I wrong.) ...but on balance, I'd overwhelmingly say it was worth it.

bluishgreen 6y ago

throw1234651234 is simply stating their experience in earnest. I don't think downvotes are necessary here. Does their views on meditation threaten your own? Then go back to your cushions, meditate more.

jodrellblank 6y ago
> simply stating their experience in earnest If they were doing that, they could use a normal username. Signing up with a throwaway to post a one-line "doesn't work" criticism about something many people feel strongly about is much more akin to "trolling" than "sharing in earnest".
- nathcd 6y ago
  I somewhat agree with your point, but I think it's pretty important that they said "It does absolutely nothing for me" - calling this as a '"doesn't work" criticism' is dishonest.
  - throw1234651234 6y ago
    Go through my profile - I have been posting on this topic for a while, including in this thread. I recently read "Altered Traits", as a result of threads like these. Unfortunately, instead of the promised research, it was tripe that culminated in "I started taking medication for my high blood pressure because meditation doesn't work." I am extremely interested in the subject, but I am also interested in concrete results.
- retsibsi 6y ago
  A more charitable interpretation is that they believe this kind of 'null anecdote' is useful: usually people who experience major effects (positive or negative) are much more likely to share their experiences, and that skews the body of anecdotal evidence. (As for the account, who knows -- maybe they correctly anticipated downvotes, but believed the comment was nevertheless worth making -- but it is several months old.)

scns 6y ago

In "Mind Illuminated" it is suggested to start with 15 minutes and add 5 after each week. This book has been recommended here several times before, helped at least one person that meditated for years to advance further. Written by a neuroscientist that teaches meditation for decades.