5 ms·

If that’s what you really want, grab a used ThinkPad and put Arch Linux on it. It will boot in a few seconds and is much more powerful than a Vic-20.

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
Still doesn't give you a programming environment, unless you want to do bash.
- armatav 6y ago
  How does that even make sense? It’s an OS, go grab a Desktop Environment and download nvim, VSCode or whatever.
  - goatinaboat 6y ago
    How does that even make sense? Because that was the experience on those old machines. Switch it on, straight to BASIC prompt in a second or so. If you want to program it’s frictionless. And you can’t break it because BASIC is in ROM.
    - harpratap 6y ago
      Flexibility vs complexity is a slippery slope.
    - cycomanic 6y ago
      If you want that today get a BBC microbit, switch on and you're directly in a python environment
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    The original line that I was responding to was > Teaching my daughter to program on a modern computer, we spend more time bootstrapping and in process, than we do in actual development. Arch Linux does not help with this, unless you make it boot into a VIC-20 emulator or something. Arch can help with boot speed, but once you're booted you're back in a full modern OS. So fine, install VSCode and Python... okay, now you get to figure out libraries. Manage terminals. Arrange a filesystem. This is not getting you closer to the VIC-20 or C64's "boot into BASIC".
    - cosmojg 6y ago
      This is very possible on Arch Linux, moreso than other distributions. After installing Arch, just run the following two commands: sudo pacman -S xonsh chsh --shell /usr/bin/xonsh Bam! You're booting straight into a full Python environment when you turn on your computer. This is similarly achievable with other languages as well, including BASIC.
    - smcameron 6y ago
      How about Processing. https://processing.org/ https://processing.org/
- gorrillaribs 6y ago
  Doesn't arch come with python & gcc out of the box?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    No, although `pacman -Syu python base-devel` isn't exactly a burden. But then what? If you're trying to get back to a simple "turn on computer, land in simple programming environment", how does it help that you have python and gcc available? You still have to manage libraries, learn to use a compiler, and all the other joys of modern development. The only thing Arch Linux gained you was a bit simpler OS and maybe better boot times.
- Throwaeay2928 6y ago
  Yes it does. When you pacstrap you include base devel. From that moment onwards your you will have a full programming environment all ready to rock and roll on your installation.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    Yes, and you have a full operating system and all the joys of modern development. You absolutely do not have anything like a VIC-20 that you can power on end have a basic programming environment 5 seconds later. At best, you turn it on and 5 seconds later have a python shell, where you can do a certain amount of development before you get to experience the joys of managing libraries and dependencies. Thus bringing us back to what I perceived as the primary complaint that there's way too much setup and baggage required just to get to the actual programming part.
    - californical 6y ago
      You can use python without needing to manage any packages -- you'll have to write most things from scratch, but isn't that the hardware BASIC non-internet experience regardless?

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago

Still doesn't give you a programming environment, unless you want to do bash.

armatav 6y ago
How does that even make sense? It’s an OS, go grab a Desktop Environment and download nvim, VSCode or whatever.
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  How does that even make sense? Because that was the experience on those old machines. Switch it on, straight to BASIC prompt in a second or so. If you want to program it’s frictionless. And you can’t break it because BASIC is in ROM.
  - harpratap 6y ago
    Flexibility vs complexity is a slippery slope.
  - cycomanic 6y ago
    If you want that today get a BBC microbit, switch on and you're directly in a python environment
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  The original line that I was responding to was > Teaching my daughter to program on a modern computer, we spend more time bootstrapping and in process, than we do in actual development. Arch Linux does not help with this, unless you make it boot into a VIC-20 emulator or something. Arch can help with boot speed, but once you're booted you're back in a full modern OS. So fine, install VSCode and Python... okay, now you get to figure out libraries. Manage terminals. Arrange a filesystem. This is not getting you closer to the VIC-20 or C64's "boot into BASIC".
  - cosmojg 6y ago
    This is very possible on Arch Linux, moreso than other distributions. After installing Arch, just run the following two commands: sudo pacman -S xonsh chsh --shell /usr/bin/xonsh Bam! You're booting straight into a full Python environment when you turn on your computer. This is similarly achievable with other languages as well, including BASIC.
  - smcameron 6y ago
    How about Processing. https://processing.org/ https://processing.org/
gorrillaribs 6y ago
Doesn't arch come with python & gcc out of the box?
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  No, although `pacman -Syu python base-devel` isn't exactly a burden. But then what? If you're trying to get back to a simple "turn on computer, land in simple programming environment", how does it help that you have python and gcc available? You still have to manage libraries, learn to use a compiler, and all the other joys of modern development. The only thing Arch Linux gained you was a bit simpler OS and maybe better boot times.
Throwaeay2928 6y ago
Yes it does. When you pacstrap you include base devel. From that moment onwards your you will have a full programming environment all ready to rock and roll on your installation.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  Yes, and you have a full operating system and all the joys of modern development. You absolutely do not have anything like a VIC-20 that you can power on end have a basic programming environment 5 seconds later. At best, you turn it on and 5 seconds later have a python shell, where you can do a certain amount of development before you get to experience the joys of managing libraries and dependencies. Thus bringing us back to what I perceived as the primary complaint that there's way too much setup and baggage required just to get to the actual programming part.
  - californical 6y ago
    You can use python without needing to manage any packages -- you'll have to write most things from scratch, but isn't that the hardware BASIC non-internet experience regardless?